Received: from relay2

The following is a list of emails that were posted to the Karmann-Ghia email list by Jim Patterson of House of Ghia.

Jim has given his permission for them to be listed here as a resource. Thanks Jim.

Many more similar things are covered at the House of Ghia web site.
Return to FAQ page

1: Headlites/adjusting assemblies:Beetles & Ghias
2: Solving grounding problems with Park/Taillites
3: Is a '67 Ghia a cursed year model to own?
4: Volvo P-1800 & K. Ghia: Cousins?
5: What can I do about my broken Ghia nose?
6: Re: Hood Frame advice needed
7: Colors for a '67 Ghia
8: What's a few thousand among friends?
9: The Exner quote is found.
10: On the origins of Karmann Ghia styling (again)!
11: KG seats and seat tracks.
12: On the origins of Karmann Ghia styling (again)! {#2)
13: Studderstepping the Thomas Murray quote.
14: Converting an autostick
15: '56-'57 parklite units. Same as Bug/Bus?
16: Matching today's wide aspect tires to yesterdays wheels
17: Reading VW part numbers/model numbers/vin numbers.
18: Back to the future/ A new KG heir?
19: '71/72/73-4 bumpers/arms/locations
20: Removing separate headrests from seat back
21: 65-67 interior lite/mirrors/What's what.
22: When tubed bumpers? A smoking gun!
23: AH-preciation and DEE-preciation
24: Windshield sizes/glass/seals/early late?
25: Identifying Ghia windshield "chrome"trim.
26: Murphy on 1998 : No Ghia content.
27: Fixing water leaks destroying door panels/pockets
28: Ghia headrest removal/69-74
29: 6 things NOT to do to a Ghia coupe
30: RHD wire harness solutions/Australian
31: Mud sill plate seals/availability
32: U-repairum clocks and a steep learning curve
33: The story of reproduction Ghia tachs
34: Replacing heater channel/sidemember with repro unit

Subject: Headlites/adjusting assemblies:Beetles & Ghias

Gilbert asks 3 important questions about Ghia headlites.

1. Is the late style Beetle headlight adjusting assembly the same as the post-64 Ghia assembly?
2. Is it possible to modify the Beetle adjusting assembly to fit the Ghia?
3. Can I use the original headlight chrome rings with the post-64 Ghia headlight assembly?

Question 1. Most definately Yes/and then probably No! Honest folks, I don't learn this wishy washy dialog from my President. (Real German headlite assemblies fit, but nothing on today's market fits.) (See below)

Question 2. Yes, you can make an adapter piece for yourself. But, the adapter piece is available separately from House of Ghia, and is included in all headlite adjusting assemblies sold by House of Ghia.

Question 3. NO! There are FOUR chrome headlite rings made, by the factory, for Ghias. (And a Brazilian make do!) Any early Ghia headlite ring, '63 and earlier, is as scarce as finding an American who doesn't think Clinton engaged in extra-marital romps. (See below)

Fact one! Year for year, Karmann Ghia headlite tips and the headlite "bucket" (looks like a scooped out metal, half melon rind) are the SAME.

But, there is a separate headlite adjusting assembly for the Euro or halogen bulbed headlites; and a headlite adjusting assembly for sealbeam bulbed cars. Parts and pieces from the two styles (Generally refered to as Euro market and USA market) DO NOT INTERCHANGE!

Fact two! Each style of headlite, Euro/halogen and USA/sealbeam, endured a major change. The parts and pieces DO NOT interchange between each major change. Also, the Euro market headlite adjusting assemblies use large flutted lenses to deflect the light. These lenses and their companion reflectors were often designed specifically for RH or LH driving. (Meaning, unlike a seal beam bulb which can be used either Right or Left, many components on a Euro market headlite are designed for one side of the car.) Again, early and late side specific parts do not interchange.

Fact three! The advice House of Ghia was giving, as long as ten years ago, is still valid. Any, 1960-thru 64 1/2 Karmann Ghia should strongly consider having the later (1964 1/2 and up) headlite bucket installed. VW does not list any bucket but this one, part number 141-809-145C, in any parts book published after the introduction of this new bucket. Why the advice? The reason is simple. Adjusting assembly and outer chrome rings (doors) for the earlier buckets are so expensive in good used or NOS condition, it is cheaper to install NEW buckets, adjusting assemblies, and outer chrome rings than to purchase the correct earlier stuff. In a 1960 and later fender, the look will be absolutely undetectable by anyone (except for a handfull of people, one of whom's initials are RT).

Fact four! The sealbeam headlite adjusting assembly used with late ('64 1/2 and up) Ghias was apparently designed first for Ghias, because it was given a Karmann Ghia part number--141-941-041. Then it was later adapted to the Type 3 sedan fender, and finally, in 1968, when Beetles dropped that funky glass lensed headlite, this adjusting assembly was used on sealbeam bulbed Beetles. Today, there are no, or few, true German sealbeam headlite adjusting assemblies available. But, every nation who had a Minister of Transport lusting for his country to have a car manufacturing industry; REPRODUCED this sealbeam adjusting assembly. And, why not! There were a kajillion Beetles on the road. The potential market was large. Of course, saving money is ultra important to these repro artists. All fitted their prototype to a Beetle fender/bucket and saw an extra cost, extra step, mounting tab could be eliminated. Trouble is, every repro copied an assembly from a Beetle WITHOUT realizing for this assembly to fit a Ghia it needed that extra tab! BUT, no one gave up or modified the part number. So, the irony is, a part that proudly carries a Karmann Ghia part number, and so should fit a Ghia if any part would, won't. (That goes for all assemblies marketed by Hella and VW using VW of Mexico or VW of Brazil made assemblies. It particularly goes for the aftermarket assemblies made in Brazil, Taiwan, Japan, and Red China. I also suspect the adjusting assemblies made in Israel, and Indonesia. Italian made headlite adjusting assemblies may or may not be made correctly for a Ghia; but, because they cost a few pennies more each, no supplier, in a cost driven capitalist market, has recently imported any from Italy to test out. Except that it doesn't bolt into a Ghia without an adapter tab, the Mexican/Hella assembly is a best buy, stout beyond belief and containing as much metal as a WW II Mark IV Panzer.

Fact 5! Even though the "Ghia" adjusting assembly fits a Beetle fender/bucket; the Beetle headlite bucket DOES NOT fit a Ghia. For a long time I too thought the Beetle bucket should fit a Ghia. It sure would be cheaper! But, look at the Beetle fender/headlite. It lays at the angle of the fender. A Ghia headlite is definately has a proud, COMPLETELY VERTICAL posture. There is no way the Beetle bucket could be easily made to fit a Ghia fender tip. (For more information on this problem, see the web files at: house-of-ghia.com Look for Questions and Answers, Question #24)

Fact 6! The Ghia headlite bucket we have been discussing also fits '61 and up Ghias using the LATE Euro headlite adjusting assembly/ring.

So, Gilbert, I'd first see if you are trying to mix and match sealbeam and Euro/halogen parts. Then, I would abandoned all thought of using a Beetle headlite BUCKET. And, finally, it you are using sealbeam Beetle adjusting assemblies, pick-up the special, simple tab House of Ghia makes for this purpose.

Subject: Solving grounding problems with Park/Taillites

okay, here's one that seems to stump even the finest in VDub tinkerers: the turn signals on my '68 only work when the air temperature outside is below 40 degrees, or there abouts. once it warms up outside (no matter if I've been driving for 5 minutes or 50) the signals quit working. has anyone ever heard of such a thing?

thanks for any help*full hints...

*************

Virtually all such problems are a grounding, or, as the English say, earth problems. On all Karmann Ghias up thru '68, the parklites (front turn signals) and the taillites, are grounded only by the mounting studs as they pass thru the fender and their companion mounting nuts/washers. So, if the holes for the mounting bolts are rusted (or just repainted) you've lost your "earth" or ground. This is such a pervasive problem only on older cars, because when fresh and rust/corrosion free, the ground system works perfectly. It's age that makes fools of us all. VW slowly came to the realization that the mounting stud/grounding system wasn't such a good idea. For the 1969 model year, a snap on tab wire end was added to both the parklite and taillite bulb holders. A brown ground wire was attached to this terminal and firmly welded to clean sheetmetal, ending forever this specific type of earthing problem. (All parklites/taillites that came later, what ever their style, had a separate ground wire.) That explains why ever so often when junkyarding/swapmeeting '60 to '69 taillites and '64 and up parklites, you will run into a bulbholder with this additional terminal, a ground terminal. These bulbholders will work on any year Ghia if you too, rely only on the mounting studs as a ground. If you are using this bulbholders on other than a '69 Ghia, add your own ground wire. You will be glad you did.

Why does the problem seem to be temperature sensitive. Because, as metal warms up it expands. If only a few threads going thru a sheet metal hole are what give you a ground, temperature variations can easily cause create metal expansion problems, ruining a ground.

If this is the problem, adding your own, even crudely attached grounding wire is a help. But, at a minimum, you must clean and wire brush the mounting studs on the back of the lites, the mounting nuts themselves, and provide a clean washer to face an eraser sized section of the back of the fender, which is free of corrosion, rust and paint. I suggest brass washers, they don't rust, and seem to corrode slower than the standard zinc plated washer. Besides, brass is a fine conductor of electricity.

Another problem area. Look at each bulb socket. The bulb easily fits into the socket. but if the bulb fits TOO EASILY into the socket, you will encounter the same type of grounding problems the entire parklite asssembly faces when the "male" brass end of the bulb fits too loosely into the "female" socket. I've seen hundreds of used tail and parklite bulbholders from this era, and at first I was surprised at the vast number of bulbs around which a very thin piece of "tin foil" (as in gum wrapper tin foil) was wound. It finally dawned on me! The tin foil was providing just the right amount of shoulder room in the bulb socket bore to provide a ground. You can provide the same kind of space thru "tightening" the smooth walled bore of the socket by grooving or knurling the bore. The "plowed field" looking grooves you cut into the walls throw up furrows of metal, that tighten the brass bulb to bulb socket distance, thus giving one a ground.

(Another problem, after decades, brass can corrode, get "dirty" cutting off a ground. Sandpaper brighten up brass based bulbs in a hurry. It can also provide thos microscopic "plowed field" ridges, re-establishing a ground.)

(I've seen the electrically shrewd, solder a copper ground wire to the brass bottom of the bulb. It sure gets you a ground, but it does nothing to ease bulb replacement.)

Can you believe it? Your electrical system is so dependent on a good ground that it can be interrupted by the additional space created by temperature caused expansion/contraction of metal!

Subject: Is a '67 Ghia a cursed year model to own?

I have a '67 Ghia. You have several times mentioned that a '67 is a nice year to own, but a poor year model to choose if one is going to make a show or museum car of it. Specifically, what parts are unique on my '67?

************

My list of unique '67 parts includes: Wiper motor; wiper switch (actually very common); Sapphire V radio; chromed ash tray (Shared with '66 Type 1 Ghias and most Type 3 Ghias); 12 volt 9 prong Emergency flasher "black box" (assembly-line, not replacement market); Emergency flasher switch with a Ghia knob, not a Beetle one, (even the flasher switch escutcheon is one year only); glove box door; glovebox door hinges; uniquely shaped wood grained dash mask; one year only speedometer; one year only dash knobs; to include, headlite switch, wiper switch, radio knobs, ignition switch; interior lite/mirror assembly with black plastic backed mirror; interior lite switch (Shared with '65-'67 Beetle convertibles and all type one Ghias); functioning seat release cables for front seat back release; correct low back seats fitting a wide seat track runner system, but having the later seat back or rake adjusting assembly; correct window winder handles, armrests, correctly patterned door/quarter panels and trim,(all one year only parts); exterior door handles; door latch for inner door; correct push pull knob/collar for locking the door; exterior or door mirror (again, only shared with a '66 Ghia); rear decklid cable housing in black nylon; stock air cleaner and sleeve (two year only Ghia item); rear compensator bar rebuild kit (used only two years in American market Ghias; left and right rear bumper corners; without the dipples for locating the back-up lites which, technically, makes the '67 corners one year only items; and assorted other parts.

That's an imposing list. Several of the parts (i.e. woodgrained dash mask, air cleaner sleeve) ARE being nicely and faithfully reproduced. Only a few of the parts would keep you from safely or easily operating your car, (door latch, ignition switch, rear compensator rebuild kit). But, coming up with "make-do" solutions would immediately remove the car from a "museum quality" listing. So, if I were out to make a show car from a "farmer's field" total restoration, I would NOT want to start with a '67. Now, somehow some buffs see this as a condemnation of their car. Nothing of the sort is intended. In fact, I've said many times, "Knowledgeable VW buffs choose '67 as the best of the breed". Largely because of an imposing and dramatic number of firsts. So, take heart '67 Ghia buffs, you may champion the "best" year to own/restore; but you certainly won't crow about having the easiest to restore year model.

Many of you wonder why I seem to DISCOURAGE folks from considering a bone stock, say, '67 when, "I know d----d well House of Ghia has the parts, I've seen them!" One on one, I might react differently. But, when my words, my encouragement might reach a 1000 ears; I react differently. It's the problem illustrated by the recent Marlboro Man posting. What might be possible for one or a few Ghia buffs to scrounge or find, will only frustrate 100 or 500 '67 Ghia buffs as they fruitlessly search for that same quickly non-existent part.

Subject: Volvo P-1800 & K. Ghia: Cousins?

Faye writes:

Today in downtown Minneapolis I saw a really splendid old Volvo sprotscar, a coupe, an 1800E, I believe. It was a nice shade of yellow and in very good condition.

I was wondering if Ghia or Porche had a hand in the design of this car--its headlight swells were almost exactly the same size, length, and shape as a Ghia's, and below the headlights were bullet-style turn signals, though larger than on a Ghia. The upper 1/3 of the doors and side in general sported this rather sharp, flare-ish ridge to it which reminded me of a type 34 Ghia. The read end was very similar (in my mind) to the read of an old Porsche, like a 356.

************

Faye! You have a good eye! If there was such a newspaper as the Automotive Inquirer in the late 1950's,it would have pictured the Karmann-Ghia, the P-1800, the Chrysler showcar--the D'elegance, and perhaps the Borgward Isabella; and then shown a photo of the Chrysler automotive stylist, Virgil Exner. The headlines would shout, "Are these cars the result of this man's design genius?"

We've covered this thread before, and my conclusion is Ghia basically "stole" the whole Karmann Ghia/P-1800 design off of a clay model the Chrysler design engineer, Virgil Exner, sent to the Ghia shops to be made into what later became the D'Elegance Chrysler show car. Richard, would prefer to believe that there was dual and immaculate gestation of the the KG and the D'Elegance, because they both emerged from the Ghia shops at about the same time. How the design got to Sweden is a bit obscure, but you can bet, without Ghias say so,legal licensing of the design just wasn't in the picture.

I don't mean to embarrass anyone, but if you folks will please gather up pictures of the following automotive designs from Northern Europe in the 50's, the result will be an instant, Who made the ugliest car EVER contest. The Type 1 Volkswagen, the DKW, assorted Messerschmidt automobiles, several Borgward sedans (Just the name Borgward, brings to mindick, poo!), the Daf, NSU, Goliath. the Volvo with a sillouette like a '48 Ford sedan, the Saab, anything Italian designed for the masses, anything French designed car for the masses, (You can start with the 2CV and go downhill from that.) and, for that matter, anything British, designed for the masses. None of the myriad cars mentioned, will every be in anyone's list of the 1000 most beautiful cars ever designed. So, it is with justification, that some say, "If the European designers of the 50's ever want to produce a beautiful car, they will have to steal the styling." (Hey! Check those eMail flames, and yes there was Mercedes, Porsche, Jaguar, and a few others; but I want you look again at a Goliath, or a Borgward. Western Europe can't always claim refinement and good taste.)

Styling and design theft is a tough crime to prosecute. Just ask Apple who suddenly found their computer OS look staring back at them with a Microsoft windows logo on it. But, I maintain, if people, like yourself, Faye, with no axe to grind, or no reason to care one way or another,independently, and instantly see the design similarities it must be because the similarities exist. Wait until ypu see the D'Elegance (and other Chrysler show car grilles) and compare it with the P 1800. If this were the lost Elvis baby, it wouldn't take involved DNA tests to show that Prestley's chromosomes were somehow involved. Except for the fins, a styling cliche of the late 50's, the P 1800 IS, WITHOUT A DOUBT, the D'Elegance's little sister. And, sorry Richard, the Karmann-Ghia is a "kissin cousin" of both these cars.

Subject: What can I do about my broken Ghia nose?

I would like a price for a sheetmetal nose for a 1962 ghia. Do they make a replacement right fnder to weld in or is the whole nose necessary? Thanks neil

************

You are wondering about an entire front clip--the front sheet metal and front fenders for a Karmann Ghia? Used, these creatures once were somewhat common, or at least possible to find. New, they were Passenger Pigeons of the Ghia world. Today, GOOD used one's are distinctly rare. and fetch an easy $1000 or more each. (Of course, poor one's are much less expensive, but who'ed want to have a face transplant, only to reinstall a badly broken face?)

A Right front fender was once sold by VW. Starting in 1968, the RH fender incorporated the fuel filler. So did every subsequent replacement fender from VW. (They are $995 each, essentially new, less if fuzzy with surface rust or marred by "shelf-rot".) So, of the New Old Stock fenders out there, precious few, if any, are the pre-'68, no gas filler opening in the fender, fenders. What does exist?

Well, there is a fine Repro Nose available. It is a nose as the VW parts department would have thought of it--in other words, it extends from outer airvent grille to outer air vent grille. With the factory fenders, L and R, this nose would have made up, basically, the entire front sheet metal of a Karmann Ghia.

The repro requires you to weld together the "pockets" behind the air vent nose, and slot the metal for your specific style of bumper arm. The final result will be undetectable from an original nose. These are excellent. The cost is $495.

There are also tip of the fender, rust repair panels available. The have saved many a mangled fender because they give a good bodyman a shape to draw the rest of the torn, ripped metal into. These are only $41.95.

The number of Ghias needing replacement front noses and fenders vastly exceeds the supply of such quality metal, either new or used. Thus most buffs are required to make do with what they have and repair their existing metal.

Subject: Re: Hood Frame advice needed

Hi there

I've taken the hood off my 68, and removed all the fabric/vinyl etc leaving just the metal/wood frame.

Before I recover the frame, I would like to repaint the metal parts as they are a bit rusty in places.

I was planning to have them sand blasted then powder coated. To prepare for powder coating I was going to unbolt all the metal struts so that they could be painted properly, but found that quite a few strut hinges were actually riveted together with what appeared to be rubber washers sandwiched in the middle. My questions are, should I be concerned about these washers? ****YES, Yes, yes!***** if I leave the strut hinges intact, will the washers melt in the 'baking' part of the powder coating process, if so, does it matter ? Should I attempt to un-rivet before painting, and re-rivet ( tack weld ) after painting ? Any advice would be great...

**************

Would you completely dismantle Frankenstein, just to give him a back rub? Some top frame bolts/bushings are larger than your thumb, and should be replaced. All moving joints should be well lubricated. However, totally dismantling a riveted top frame is difficult and replacement rivets may not be available. So, besides being difficult to do, powdercoating may be overkill. Who's to see the metal top frame on a correctly upholstered cabriolet? What's wrong with a good rattle can paint job? Only a car show judge who is dropped from a great height thru the top up hood of your car, will ever see those powder coated frame rails, and he may not live to tell about it.

(If only you and the Supreme Being will know that the frame is powdercoated, why go to the trouble to impress a rather jaded Supreme Being. After all, She's seen slime and sleaze before, why She invented Politicians and lawyers, didn't She?)

Subject: Colors for a '67 Ghia

i am about to restore a '67 K.G. coupe. do you know what colors were originally offered for both paint and interior? i tried to find info at house of ghia, ghia world, and a few others, but saw nothing.

********

Only 9 exterior colors in the '67 model year/blended with 4 interior color combinations. (Note, we are talking about American market cars with vinyl (leatherette) interiors. European market cars sometimes could have had partially cloth interiors).

Color                 color code                    Interior vinyl
Black                     L41                      Indian Red
Bermuda               L288                     Black
Lotus white          L282                             Khaki brown/Indian red
Roulette green     L544                             Light sand
Cherry red            L554                     Black
Savanna beige     L620                     Khaki brown
Castilian yellow   L10K                    Black
Neptune blue       L50K                    Black
Vulkan gray          L70K                            Light sand.

Subject: What's a few thousand among friends?

Richard, bless him, doesn't quite see how interior restoration can cost an ordinary mortal, in Dumbcluck Iowa, mega thousands of dollars.

He writes.

Just catching up on ANCIENT posts from my trip, I found this quote:

Among the do's and don'ts are the following. 6) Replacing the interior of an average, "farmer's field" coupe may cost only $600-$800 for a complete overhaul. The result will be exceptionally sturdy, very pleasant looking, and within 90% of museum stock. For most Ghias, especially early cars (requiring "total restoration"),the remaining 10% required to achieve true museum stock interiors is likely to cost 5 to 6 THOUSAND dollars, and the timespan required is easily equal to the gestation period of a human fetus. The lesson? Set realistic, acheivable goals for your upholstery job.

...As the owner and restorer of a '58 Ghia which actually sat in a real automuseum for a year I can tell you the $5 to $6000 price is about DOUBLE the real museum quality '50s era interior cost. Door and quater panels were the biggest expense at $1200, second was materials at around $800 to $1000, and the rest was labor - around $500 for the seats and $500 for carpet and headliner... That includes cutting, binding, and fitting the carpet. And it includes installation of all the glass, though I helped...

The only REAL pain wasn't the money - it was the management oversight. EVERY detail had to be supervised to ensure authenticity in the way each piece was laid, etc. But the result is truly stunning as anyone who has seen it can attest.

***********

Absolutely no slight was meant or intended. Richard's workmanship, attention to detail, knowledge and desire to produce as authentic a restoration as possible is legendary. The results are standards of excellence and detail everyone in the hobby strives to meet or beat. Few can! That's why his cars are The Standard. But, I think Richard undervalues his own contribution. (I didn't think I'd ever say that!) To a man who has climbed Mt. Everest a dozens times, the task seems easy. Well within the capabilities of most. T'aint so! Similarily, showroom stock interior restoration on early Ghia's is as close to climbing Mt. Everest, as this hobby will produce. Mt. Everest isn't getting any taller, but, the Mt. Everest,(showroom stock interiors) of the Ghia hobby is beginning to soar upward; making the task of acheiving the summit vastly more difficult, year by year. (Yes, inspite of the increasing number of quality restoration products.) Michelangelo could take a pocket knife and carve a intricate masterpiece. I, with the same tools and block of stone, would be lucky to end up with a lump of granite resembing a crude phallic symbol.

Nor, has Richard listened daily to the song of the Cheap Breasted, Shallow Pocketed Ghia Warbler. "But, I can get door panels from JC Whatisname for $49.95. And, they offer Puce, and you only offer White. So, how can you tell me my door panels will cost" Richard! There are more Cheap Warbler's out there than Michelangelo's. To a Cheap Warbler, either $1200 or $2400 for door panels is simply a galactic sized number. So, I stick by my figures! Mere mortals can produce a stock interior in the $5000 range. (Richard didn't mention the rubber mats, the dash knobs, the sunvisors, and little geehaws like the rubber rear seat strap, the interior mirror assembly, the interior lite, authentic instruments, the door and quarter panel moldings, and heaven forbid, the correct seat frame, (if your car has been diddled by the PO using the sensible '70's era technique of reupholstering by merely swapping in later, more durable, vinyl Ghia seats.)

As Marie Antoinette found, a wealthy King is in no position to lecture the peasants about their spending habits. Richard, in at least the area of Karmann Ghias, you are wealthier than even you know.

Subject: The Exner quote is found.

I don't recommend moving. Moving a wrecking yard has even lower priority in my eye. But, a move can expose things that haven't seen the light of day for years. In stirring the rubble at House of Ghia, I came aross a long lost magazine and its article quoting Virgil Exner on the styling that resulted in the Karmann Ghia.

The article is of rather little consequence in the celestial scope of things. No history books will quote it. No creatures will live or die because of it. Even the magazine the story was in, exists no longer. But, finding it brings me BONE DEEP SATISFACTION. To the core!

On several occassions in the past, I have suggested that the styling of the Karmann Ghia was not inspired solely by a momentary flash of individual genius. The design world's equivilent of Immaculate Conception. In fact, I have often said, "To my eye, distinct elements of the Chrysler show car, D'elegance, were transfered directly to the Karmann Ghia." (We will get back to the spelling of the car's name in a moment.) The fact that both cars were being sculpted in the Ghia "shops" at exactly the same time; hasn't phased those who hold the theory Ghia designers were solely responsible for the styling. Oliver Stone didn't vilify the Warren Report on the Kennedy Assassination any more acidly than was my theory--Exner was at least a kind of godfather to the Karmann Ghia--when it reached the internet.

"Crap" is among the mildest words that come to mind when remembering the reception the design theft theory received. Oh, it was admitted that my scholarship was correct when quoting Virgil Exner's son that the Karmann Ghia is "Just dead nuts on the whole Karmann Ghia idea." But, I had also quoted Virgil senior on his view of the relationship of the Karmann Ghia and D'elegance styling. Because I was quoting Virgil Exner from my own historical article, first published in '84 or so, the information was quickly dismissed because I couldn't come up with the author of the article, or the name of the reporter capturing the quote. It was hinted, Jim, the clever, colorful writer, had stretched "poetic license" to the point of plagerism.

In fact, it was stated that there was no known instance of Virgil Exner ever commenting on the similarity of the KG D'elegance design.

The following quotes come from Car Collector and Car Classics magazine dated March 1980. A Karmann Ghia coupe fills the cover of the magazine.

The article's title is one of those cutsie plays on German/English.

KARMANN GHIA 1st Das Nicht Ein Kustom Wagen? Ja! Das 1st Ein Kustom Wagen!

The author is Richard M. Langworth, a well known, very prolific automotive writer.

For our purposes, the following quote begins in the middle of the article.

When peace came (My note: After WW II), aging Giacinto Ghia tried to keep his company going by building bicycles. When he died in 1946, his heirs appointed one Mario Boano as general manager. Boano soon signed on Luigi Segre, and (the Ghia firms) fortunes began to rise.

Segre was an Italian Raymond Loewy. (My note: A designer of Automobiles and kitcheware, Loewy was as gifted at promoting himself as in promoting his designs. He is best known for giving Studebaker a styling a lift with the classic '53 body style. Forgotten is his contribution to the Lark). A competent designer (Segre); he was also a keenly sensitive businessman who specialized in convincing customers that they simply couldn't do without Ghia's services. Under Segre's guidance, Ghia reached its peak of success, building one-offs and limited production specials for Chrysler, Ford and Packard. The Chrysler showcars, Lincoln Futura, Mercury Turnpike Cruiser and Packard Predictor all involved Ghia. In Europe, Ghia built Porsche Spyders, Simca two seat coupes, the Alfa Romeo B-20 and the popular Renault two seaters variously named Floride or Caravelle. It is not recorded whether Karmann approached Ghia or visa versa, but knowing Luigi Segre, we can assume that he did most of the talking. What he ended up proposing to the Germans was hardly an original design--and here enters the Detroit connection.

Segre had been working with Chrysler's experimental design department since Virgil M. Exner moved there from Studebaker in 1949, and a cordial relationship had developed. To get Exner's patronage, Segre in 1950 built a sharp looking four door, the XX-500, on a Plymouth chassis. A pleasing sedan with just a touch of Pininfarina (My note: A far better known and respected Italian designer). It showed how exciting the dowdy Plymouth could be with a little Italian dressing. Exner loved it.

When Exner began working on his dream car ideas for Chrysler, there was no place in Detroit to build them economically. The Turinese, on the other hand, specialized in such work. An Italian craftsman could take a piece of flat steel, a pair of tin snips and some rudimentary shaping tools and turn out a finished fender conforming to a two dimensional design. Then he could take another sheet and create a mirror image for the other fender. He still can today, and this is why Ghia's present owner, Ford, continues to rely on the Italian house for design and prototype developement.

Exner proceeded to send all his Chrysler design work to Ghia, which duly constucted the cars and sent themn back home to rave reviews. (Snip) Ultimately Chrysler came to exercise such control over Ghia's affairs that Mario Boano quit in anger. But Segre continued to work on his own as well as Exner's ideas.

One combination of Exner and Segre styling was the 1953 Chrysler D'elegance coupe (Author Langworth's note: The spelling is Chrylser's). (My note: So, finally we know why there are so many different spellings of the name of the car. And we Americans wonder why the French have formed and armed, Language Police). Ghia built 25 of these and sold them to moneyed customer. In 1954, a D'elegance derivation called the GS1 (Ghia-Segre) was rolled off in quantity of 400, and sold at a fat profit through the Chrysler Paris agency. And, these two cars, the former particularly, directly influenced the shape of the VW Karmann Ghia.

"The D'elegance was just dead nuts on the whole KG idea," Virgil Exner, Jr. told this writer, "except that on account of the rear engine the nose was changed. I went to school for a time in Austria, and saw the prototype down in Torino. They asked my opinion--did it look too much like the D'elegance? I said no it looked JUST like it". (Emphasis is author Langworth's).

Exner, the elder, in an interview with Michael Lamm,(My note: Writer and sometimes publisher of the biggest magazines in the car buff galaxie--Think Road & Track, Car and Driver and the like). said of the D'elegance" "we had prepared a very detailed plaster model for them (Ghia) to work from. At the same time they were working on prototypes forthe Karmann Ghia. They had done two or three and Karmann was still not satisfied. This plaster model of mine came in and lo and behold, when the KG came out it was scaled right down to the fraction."

Specifically, the only K-G details which were NOT (Emphasis, author Langworth) Exner's were the Karmann Ghia's rounded nose and the side crease leading forward from the rear fender. The creaseline was developed on the D'elegance by Segre, who obviously wanted to impart more of a look of forward motion. A grille was unnecessary with a rear engine car, so Segre neatly rounded the nose and fitted it with two tiny air scoops. (My note: The Ghia metal prototype, now housed at Osnabruck, did not have nose grilles or vents). That was basically all. The greenhouse, the body lines, the fender curvature were nearly 100 percent Detroit. One wonders if W. Dorwin Teague knew his award winning automobile was designed by a competitor Virg Exner. (Snip) (My note: In the mid-60's Teague, himself a noted designer, awarded the Karmann Ghia, along with other industrial products like a designer phone, a chair, a bottle, etc. the distinction of being among the best designed industrial products. Teague, author Longworth implies, would have been shocked to find a bitter rival as a recipient of his award).

(Later in the article, which was primarily written to alert car buffs of 1980 to the fact the Karmann Ghia was a potentially collectible car, Longworth says)

Choosing between coupe or convertible won't be easy for most collectors. Convertibles are four times as rare as coupes. They appeal for all the usual reasons, and their tops are masterpieces of craftsmanship. But, the car Dorwin Teague, Bob Bourke, Gordon Buehrig (My note: All famed stylists and designers) admired was the Karmann Ghia COUPE (Author Langworth's emphasis). That was the classic, original design, concocted by Virgil Exner and executed by Luigi Segre.

End quote:

I think that's a beautiful way to finish what has become a rancorous topic. The Karmann Ghia design as concocted by Exner and executed by Segre.

Subject: On the origins of Karmann Ghia styling (again)!

Apparently Eudora lite was doing some editing of its own on this message. This time I hope it all comes thru.

Some in this group may remember a topic thread of a few months ago concerning the origin of the styling that became the Karmann Ghia. At that time, I suggested our beloved Ghia owes a great styling debt to Virgil Exner, then design chief of Chrysler Corporation. You'd have thought I hinted at DESIGN THEFT. Well I did. And for my efforts I was virtually excommunicated from the group. It seems my biggest flaw in scholarship was to quote from an article I had written well over a decade ago and then not be instantly able to back up a quoted statement by Virgil Exner. I couldn't recall who quoted him. I am still trying to find the original article, but three major moves in the interval has hampered my ability to find the original source.

However, in the meanwhile, I did re-run across an article by Thomas Murray, published in the Car Collector and Car Classics magazine of November 1981. Murray is a professional writer. He wrote in the 50's for Chevrolet and was associated with Zora Duntov and the effort to give an image to the Corvette. Thru out the '60's and '70's he was an automotive "ad man" and as such was privy in advance to many of the dramatic styling revolutions of the era. As the man who would have to capture the essence of, say, the up coming Corvair, or the '63 Corvette in advertisements; he was given unusual access to cars that didn't then exist in the public eye. That access included a host of the chief stylists, the automotive god's of the '50's and '60's. So, he speaks fondly of the impact many of these stylists had on his perceptions. In fact, he is a veritible name dropper, with famed stylists like Larry Shinoda, Howard Darrin, Bill Mitchell prominately mentioned. "The styling that stopped me cold." was the name of the article. The objects included the '63 Corvette, the '41 Buick, the '53 Kaiser with the famed, "Darrin Dip" in the back door. Even a 1932 Beechcraft Bi-plane. And, then there is thewell, let's let Murray tell it.

Subject: KG seats and seat tracks.

To make life simplier for those looking for either Ghia seats or seat track rails, here are several rules of thumb. (True only of American Market cars, however, most of the data is true of other market Ghias).

1) All Ghias thru model year '68 shared the same seat track runners. (Wide track, 21 inches wide). All Ghias from '69 thru the end shared the same seat track runners. (Narrow track, About 18 inches wide).

2) Any Ghia seats intended for "wide tracks" will fit any year wide track. Any Ghia seats intended for "narrow tracks" will fit any year narrow track.

3) Any true Ghia seat without a headrest is found only on '67 and earlier Ghias. Therefore, any Ghia seat without a headrest will fit wide tracks.

Vw's interior designers suffered a major nervous breakdown in '68, and at least 3 different seats were used in '68 production. Fortunately, for the American market, only one seat was used. It is the only Ghia seat with a built in headrest, rising pimple like from the back of the seat--like all Beetle seats with headrests. '68 seats fit wide tracks.

Any Ghia seat with a headrest that fits on stalks is found only on '69 and later narrow tracked Ghias.

Some further info:

Early seats '56 and '57 are not symetrically shaped within the same seat. These seats are rare enough they should be sold to authenticity minded buffs.

Seats from '58 thru '65 are basically the same and major parts interchange. Their one characteristic is they look and sit FLAT.

'66 and '67 Ghia seats are "bucket seats" with out a headrest.

'69-'74 Ghia seats are "bucket seats" with a stalked headrest

Another way to tell a seats age is by looking at its bottom. If the lever manipulating the "stay in place" lock on the base of the seat, directly moves only one set of "combs" or locks, the seat is intended for wide tracks. If the lever not only directly manipulates the lock on one side, but is connected to a rod that simultaneously also moves a lock on THE OTHER SIDE, the seat is a '69 and later one.

Other mix and match combinations are possible, but you are much more likely to get into deep, unrepairable trouble using these "iffy" combinations than if you stayed with the above rules of thumb.

Subject: On the origins of Karmann Ghia styling (again)! {#2)

Apparently Eudora lite was doing some editing of its own on this message. This time I hope it all comes thru.

Subject: Studderstepping the Thomas Murray quote.

Instead of leading into the the Thomas Murray quote again, I am going to start off with it. This time something should happen. This is probably the most anticipated quote ever thrown up to this group. Sorry for the suspense.

I think the hardest I ever got hit was with the Karmann Ghia. I was on my way to work one morning in 1957 or '58 whem WHAM--there it was--right in front of me on Woodward Avenue in Detroit, darting into my lane and out too quickly for me even to read the name on the back. I punched the accelerator and tried to move behind it but it was gone. My head was spinning, my mouth was dry, and the small red spots had already started to form on my arm.

I rushed into the copy department offices of Campbell-Ewald where the rest of the writers on Chevrolet were just settling behind their typewriters with their first cup of coffee. I quickly made for the the office of the "writer's writer", Barney Clark, who was just back from a year's special assignment with Maury Rose on stock car racing. He was now working with Zora Duntov and drivers like (Doctor) Dick Thompson to make something of the Corvette on the sports car circuit.

"Barney, I've just seen the most beautiful car on Woodward. I've got to have it." And, I proceeded to describe it. As I remember it, David E. Davis who was our performance guru number two was there, and I don't know which one identified the car for me. I do recall the answer. "It's a Karmann Ghia, and there is nothing under there but a VW."

I didn't care what was UNDER there, even pedals would do, I HAD to have that car. No stylist ever worked on me so quickly, so overwhelmingly, so mercilessly, so successfully. And, of course, in a matter of a few months I had constructed the rationale to justify its purchase. That, ladies and gentlemen, is styling professionalism and artistry at their very apogee.

The above quote is the only mention of the Karmann Ghia and creator except the author (and the magazines photo editor) produced pictures of the various examples of "Styling that stopped me cold", often with the author driving the car. Under the picture of the Karmann Ghia is the following caption.

Quote: "The beautiful Volkswagen" as it is sometimes called, really had its origins in the US even though it carries the names of both German and Italian body builders. Patterned after a combination Chrysler-Ghia design for the 1953 Chrysler D' elegance coupe (my note. This is the third, or is it the fourth, spelling of d' elegance we've run across), it is the work of Ghia's Luigi Segre and Chrysler's Virgil Exner.

Subject: Converting an autostick

Hey Jim, I just bought a '68 Karman Ghia coupe. I has a autostick tranny. Is is possible to covert it to a 4 speed. I realize that the tranny itself needs to be changed. I'm just wandering about the details such as the pedals, clutch cable, shifter, etc... Please let me know. Best Regards, Ken

Ken. Yes, it is possible to convert an autostick to manual transmission. There are TWO major ways.

1) Install a stock clutch/brake pedal assembly and then use the clutch cable tube the factory MAY have installed in your car to hook up the clutch to the 4 speed transmission. Everything will be plug and play IF THE FACTORY installed a clutch cable tube in your tunnel. However, in 1968, when the auto- stick first came out, VW was looking to save themselves a few pennies per car. I estimate 100% of the first edition autostick cars DID NOT have the vital clutch cable tube. By 1974, the last year for the autostick in Ghias, virtually 100% of the pans did have the tube. Now, you are going to ask, "How can I tell if the clutch cable is installed?" Well, this is one of those, "seeing" questions an internet chat group is so poor at. Just how ugly is Roger Dangerfield's wife? Sure you could get a ten thousand word comedy skit on the subject. But, would you know anymore than before? Any VW buff who knows where to LOOK for the clutch cable tube coming out of the tunnel forks, could by crawling out and under, within a micro second answer your question. I could flounder at this keyboard for days and you still wouldn't have a clue.

AND IF YOU DON'T HAVE A CLUTCH CABLE TUBE FACTORY INSTALLED? Why, you must literally break into or "crack" you pan's tunnel and install one.

2) Install an aftermarket hydraulic clutch/brake pedal assembly and then hook up a "slave" cylinder, bolted by U-makum brackets, to the transmission. This is a common way of hooking up clutches in sand rails and dune buggies, however, it is likely to make swiss cheese of your stock "firewall". I know of no bolt-in set up you can buy to make the conversion on a stock ghia.

In either case, have a complete junked Bug/Ghia on hand to rob the necessary parts from: i.e. shifter, shift rod, pedal assembly etc. If you were to buy all of the "little" items outright, the cost would be horrendous.

On a pleasure/pain scale, this conversion has the opposite effect of cocaine. Coke gives you euphoria FIRST and then, when you are sufficiently addicted, administers the pain. This conversion gives you a healthy dose of pain first, then the pleasure when you finally get to shift with a clutch.

BOTTOM LINE. Autostick to 4 speed conversions can be done, but I know of no one who is purposely and actively seaching out autosticks and for either greed or love, converting them to manual transmissions.

Subject: '56-'57 parklite units. Same as Bug/Bus? This may be a tough question because it would require some knowledge of both early bus and early ghia turn signals. Therefore the one with the answer gets twice the points for knowing. :)

The bullet turn signals on my 58 ghia are missing the lens and the metal cover that hold the lens on. The unique thing about the 58 (and I assume 56 and 57) is that the portion of the turn signal that holds the bulb is actually part of the fender. On 59 ghia's and after the whole turn signal assemble bolts to the fender. At a recent swap meet I saw what I thought I needed. Upon inquireing the lens and cover were for early bus. My question is this. Does the bullet style bus turn signal cover fit a ghia? The lenses are the same part number in my WCM catalog. Will the metal cover fit the contour of the ghia? Does anyone have a set of covers? bum,bum,bum, bumm bum,bum, bumm (jeapordy tune)

**********

Bugs, Buses and Ghias all used a variation of the '56-'57 Bug, "bullet style" front fender turn signal assemblyfor a year or two. As fate would have it, the units all look "virtually identical"; but only parts and pieces will interchange between different VW models. The entire units DO NOT interchange.

Look to the chart below.

Beetles used this "style" assembly thru '57 (In certain markets, i.e. USA) Buses used this "style" assembly thru '61 Karmann Ghias used this "style" assembly thru Ch # 2-103-014. (Early '58)

1) Lens. Amber Vw part # 211-953-161 (A Bus part number) White Vw part # 111-953-161 (A Bug part number)

Either could have found their way onto a Karmann Ghia (depending on the original market the car was built for sale in). (So, the WCM part description is correct about fit of the lens).

2) Bracket (mounting cone)

(Sheet metal portion sticking out of angled fender and ending in a flat, circular, 50 cent sized face on which to mount the bulbholder assembly).

Karmann Ghia fenders Vw part # 141-809-137 Bug/Bus fenders ??? But, probably mounting cones for any model could be adapted to any other model.

3) Bulbholder.

Here's where problems for Ghia buffs begin to multiply. The bulbholder used on Beetles and Ghias (It looks like a small, quaint, chromed volcano) had one terminal at the base. It would light up only one filament bulbs. Ghias, in North America, used dual pole or terminal or filament bulbs. (One for the turn signal and one for the parklite. Remember, the parklite bulb, on this era Bug/Bus is located in the headlite housing). The dual pole bulbholder has a part # of 141-953-053. The Bug/Bus single terminal bulbholder is being reproduced. It will fit a Ghia; but won't fully work on North American market cars.

4) Casing or decorative sleeve between lens and fender.

Now this gets really complex. Picture that "tin can" sleeve with a flat face to mount the lens, and an angled face to fit against the fender. Sure, the sloping angle of the Ghia fender, the Bug fender, and the Bus Nose are all different. So, each decorative casing has a different slant at its "back-end". Not only that, if the Ghia sleeve fits with its "bottom" facing downward, the Bug/Bus sleeve fit with the "bottom" facing to the side. OK, being a thoughtful manufacturer, you provide a drain hole so that water getting past the lens/seal can use gravity and exit thru the hole. The drain hole for a Ghia would be on the "bottom" of the sleeve. If a bottom holed Ghia sleeve was placed on a Bus/Bug, the drain hole would now face to the side! Oops!

Now to controversy. On cars leaving the production line, this sleeve was apparently painted body color. But, the parts departments quickly shouted, "That's stupid! Now we must stock a kajillion colors of parklite sleeve!" Solution! For the over the counter parts market, a chromed sleeve was developed at some point (It might have even seen the production line for a few months). The parts departments were seeded with these pretty chrome items; and 20 and 30 years later, when restorers began saving unsold parts from these dusty parts shelves, the proverbial NOS treasure, chrome sleeves predominated. This lead many to think that chrome parklite sleeves were the way all Ghias first saw the light of day. Nope!

Note; I fully desire to ignite controvery with the above statements. But, I am not inviting mayhem, character assassination, or comments concerning my recent ancestors and their species designation.

Subject: Matching today's wide aspect tires to yesterdays wheels

I've got a 74 convt. I really have this "hormonal" urge (I believe those are your words) to put low profile tires & newer "chrome" wheels on Da Ghia. I am an older Mechanical engineer & believe in original design intent. I'm not looking for big ole fat tires or a low rider AND I won't be messin with the torsion bars or steering wheel. What I'd really like is the same O.D. & same width of the original 165R15 tire BUT........ very low profile. Can you help? For some reason I can't bring up the section in Q&A about wheels. My MAC is not cooperating (that's if you've already answered this question)

************

I tried to answer your questions, but I hope you don't mind if I, in addition, tacked on a new sermon on modifying a Ghias tires/wheels. Some buffs hate modified tires/wheels because they are not stock. My objection is not one of a purist. My objection is that most folks haven't considered the pleasure/pain aspect BEFORE commiting to new wheels/tires. They see only the "pleasure" of having attractive, "macho" looking wheels. They don't realize they are headed for pain until it is too late. But, back to your question.

It is in that nasty translating between tire width, aspect ratio and wheel width where my 7th grade math fails me! I know some tire stores have a kinda ratio calculator that lets one "dial up" comparisons between the current low aspect tires and the previous generations (as tires go) aspect ratio. The last Ghia uses tire aspect ratio technology that is three generations removed from today's tire technology. And the original '56 Ghia was designed for tire technology FOUR generations removed. No wonder we don't all talk the same language. (Think of it like today's CD-ROM's. You want to use a CD-ROM with your original Macintosh. Well, since your Mac came out, we've gone thru 3.5 floppies, internal hard-drives, Syquest cartridges, and ZIP drives. What you want is a simple translator that cuts thru the "babble" and let's you use today's technology with yesterday's state of the art devices. Well, such a thing might not exist.)

First off, I am only aware of 15 inch diameter wheels that fit Beetles/Ghias.

If they did exist, 16 or 17 inch wheels, on a Karmann Ghia would largely cancel out the "bitchin look" of low aspect tires. Think about it! A tire only 4 inches high from bead to road surface contactcalled the crown, on a 17 inch diameter rim, would have the same tire/wheel diameter (relatively) as a 15 inch diameter rim using a tire with bead to crown height of 6 inches. Only if you could get really low aspect tires on 15 inch rims would you change the look much.

Secondly,(and this is the new sermon) stop seeing a tire wheel in the fender opening as essentially two dimensional. Get in your Ghia. Crank the steering wheel over hardall the way to its limiter. Now, get out and start inspecting the tire/wheel clearances. Oh, no! The tight spots for the tires are not those you expectedare they! Now, get a friend to press down with both hands just behind the headlite. His first shove should be like the push he'd use in a heart attack resusitation. You've just simulated the effect of going over mouse droppings in the road. Next, have him use the energy of the Himmelich maneuver. That's works your suspension as if you were driving over the average paperback book. Finally, have him leap so his arse lands on the fender tip. That's similar to running over a 2 x 4. Notice any part of the inner fender panel, etc, coming surprisingly close to the tire?

Living with wide wheels/tires on Karmann Ghia, more than on most cars, requires accepting unpleasant compromises and consequences. We laugh hysterically at women who corset themselves up in all manner of devices they've decreed make them look beautiful. And, when the laughter dies, we inquire with compassion, "Doesn't it hurt to look like that?" The answer is, of coursedarn right! So, why, in the name of a "bitchin look", would you put up with painful tire/wheel compromises and consequences: Like always hearing a noisy rub when going over any bump. Like always having to slow and stop before turning into driveways higher or lower than the main road. Like always having a turning radius twice as large as a stock Ghia. (Some modified Ghias require stopping and backing up TWICE before completing the same turn a stocker makes with no hesitation.) Like having a spare tire completely different from your "main wheels". Like, (on swing axle Ghias, and even sometimes on IRS cars) not being able to change a roadside flat. (The wheels at the rear suffer extreme decambering when flat, wedging the tire against the inner fender panel to the point they can't be removed with ordinary VW jacks).

Subject: Reading VW part numbers/model numbers/vin numbers.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing!

Many folks, including VW buffs who have been with the hobby for decades have trouble with the difference between model numbers, chassis/VIN numbers and part numbers.

Dam Damn Damned

To know which of the words above refers to a water impoundment barrier, a mild swear word or a soul in torment for eternity; one must know something about the context of the statement. It is the same for VW model/vin/part numbers.

141 at the beginning of a triple series of 3 numbers IS a Karmann Ghia part number. As in 141-871-924. In this case it is also a reference to a Karmann Ghia convertible only part. This number is printed on the part, in the parts book, and is also used to "order" or "call" up the part. It is like an offical "dogtag" for individual Karmann Ghia parts,(coupe or convertible) and in some cases, does refer to Karmann Ghia Convertibles.

141 at the beginning of a series of chassis or VIN numbers IS a definate reference to a 1971 Karmann Ghia. But in this case, nothing about the gender of the car can be told. The number on the pan, or on official documents would look like this: 144-2645-321 (or even 1412645321). It is like an individual "dog tag" for a SPECIFIC VEHICLE. It is only by chance that this 141 looks exactly like the above 141. In any case their meaning is vastly different.

141 IS VW parts department "speak" for a Karmann Ghia convertible. This would most likely show up in a parts microfische or paper parts book in the column called type and model. Notice, saying "141" is the most compact way one can say Karmann Ghia Convertible. It is like a shorthand version of ranking the vehicles/parts within the VW army. For example: Pfc for private, Sgt for Sergeant, etc. 111 for standard Beetle, 151 for Beetle convertible, 211 for standard bus based pick-ups, etc. It is a number closely related to the the part number. But, it has only distant relationship to its VIN number look-a-like; while it is a kiss'n cousin to the part number.

So, to repeat. It's the context, silly!

Subject: Back to the future/ A new KG heir?

David S of Seattle wants to know if "lightning could strike twice in his lifetime."

Hi Jim, Thanks for your terrific page! My question concerns the overwhelming success of the Bug reissues. Any chance Volkswagen will try to strike gold twice and reintroduce a Ghia for the 90's?

***********

We can all hope! One thing is for sure. They won't be able to name it a Karmann Ghia. VW doesn't control the Ghia name anymore. Ford does.

VW was badly burned by the sporty Corrado, in the early '90's. In spite of some nifty engineering and somewhat attractive styling, the Corrado was burdened with a hefty retail price tag, large factory development costs and a public perception highly laced with a "Gee Whiz" factoras in Gee whiz, what will those engineers think of next?"

All Ghia buffs can recite from memory the factors that made the Karmann Ghia legendary.

1) A successful, tried and true mechanical platform (In the Ghia's case Beetle based) of ho hum, but adaquate performance that lends itself to tinkering, 2) mated to a beautiful 3) semi-custom built body of unsurpassed integrity, that is 4) marketed and sold thru a large, established network of dealers.

That recipe fits several dozen successful cars. The original Mustang comes to mind. (Lots of Mustang buffs are loath to admit their car is Falcon based!) The early 2 and 4 seat Thunderbirds were superb exmples. Today, the Miata probably qualifies. Several versions, but not all entries in the Toyota Celica series make the grade. The English were particulary adept at making the most of a humdrum sedan platform. Most TR 2,3,4 buffs are taken back to find their nifty sports car carries a "souped up" tractor engine. The MG series certainly started off with very pedestrian sedan underpinnings.

Currently, Toyota is acting like they invented this niche, with a 2 door coupe that shares everything about their enormously successful 4 door Camary series except the outer sheet metal.

VW, its take over lust slaked, and its borrowing power diminished; may, out of necessity, once again, broaden their line of offerings by sticking to "the formula". Unfortunately, in the States, VW may find a large dealer network its major weakness. I don't think a combination Yugo, Mitsubishi, Pizza Hut and Volkswagen dealership quite qualifies for "the formula".

Subject: '71/72/73-4 bumpers/arms/locations

To help Faye, Tom and others deciper what type of bumper connections they have, here's some help.

First. The X-Files, Roswell New Mexico syndrome. VW was not in the habit of producing "one" off's for the amazement and delight of restorers 30 years later. More than virtually any modern manufacturer who doesn't have the word "Drug" in the middle of the corporate name; VW meticiously recorded AND PUBLISHED every change in their vehicles. In the early years of production '56-'59, say the changes were made momentarily, the second, VW thought it had a "better" part or item. Starting with the 1960 model year, and continuing to the end of Ghia production, Karmann/VW tended to bunch, especially cosmetic changes, at the beginning of a model year. This is not to say that changes were not made thru out the model year, but VW was, by the early '70's much more like Detroit in the handling of changes than the upstart firm of the '50's who insisted planned obsolescence was an affront to logic and common sence.

So, put the "I've got a special transition model Ghia bumper system" at the bottom, the absolute bottom, of your "possibilities" list.

Location of Ghia bumper arm slots as they pierce the nose of the car.

First, Ghia front sheet metal is essentially made up of 3 parts. LH fender, nose panel, RH fender.

So, The bumper arm slots must pierce this sheet metal at some point so the arms can be bolted up to something more solid.

1)All bumper arm slots for '56-'71 bumpers pierce the nose panel of the Ghia. In no way could they be seen as slotted thru the fender section of the front clip. The only fender indication of a '56-'71 bumper is an 8 mm hole for the tip of the bumper mounting bolt found only on this era Ghia low near the front of the wheel opening.

2)The bumper arm that must go thru this nose slot is 1 1/2 inch high (40 mm). The slot opening in the nose panel could accommodate 2, maybe 3, Presidential sized cigarsno more. If the inner fender panels are still attached to the front clip; one can always see the slots by looking in the luggage compartment area, down near the outer edges of what could be called the spare tire compartment.

3) Again, if the inner fender panels are in place, one should be able to move straight backward from the slot opening in the nose to find a special "L" shaped bracket welded to the lower inner fender, and in direct line with the slot. This bracket "cages" TWO 8mm nuts (that are removed with a 13 or 14 mm wrench). Except for the tip of fender bolts, a shade tree mechanic could remove these 4 bumper bolts (two on each side) standing up and bending over into the luggage compartment. The loosened bumper would then fall off the car directly on said mechanics toes.

So, reguardless of the year of clip you think you have, if it has a tip of the bumper mounting hole on the fender flank, and a two cigar tall bumper arm slot that can be accessed from the luggage compartment, you have a 1971 or earlier Ghia front clip.

4) In 1972, VW went to the square or railtrack shaped bumpers. These bumpers could not be supported by 1 1/2 inch high bumper brackets near the center of the nose of the car. So, going "outboard" of the usual bumper arm spot meant VW had to design a type of metal "box" that was attached to the outside of the inner fender panels (also called wheel house). The bumper arm bracket was also much deeper (4 to 5 cigars deep) and was held on by THREE bolts. The resulting slot in the front sheet metal was virtually in the center of the natural seam where fender and nose sheet metal came together. There was NO bumper tip support bolt, hence no hole in the flank of the fender.

5) In 1973, car manufacturers had to comply with consumer legistation to limit the expensive damage from from low speed impacts. In other words, bumpers could no longer be expensive, crushable geehaws that shredded hundreds of consumers dollars at even parking lot speeds. (The law has since been changed and there are currently no bumper integrity standards (this soon may not be true), but, at the time, I believe, the law stated, for safety reasons, a bumper could only deflect so many gadzillions of a mm in a 5 mph bumper bash test. Most manufacturers opted to do the right thing and put the bumper on a type of shock absorber or crushable piston or tube. For example the Beetle/Rabbit and Scirocco all had a rather clever system. VW gave the Ghia a simple system that was to have a devistating impact, literally, on the cars survival. 1973-74 Ghias used a stout round, hollow steel tube, about the diameter of a wine bottle, and attached it to within a sliver of the back of the front bumper. Then they notched this tube and placed it within a sliver of the front torsion tube suspension. The system met the letter of the law, the bumper deflected only the allowable amount in low speed fender bender, BUT,at any speed above a fast trot, the front suspension could be wiped out, causing catastrophic damage to the consumers pocketbook.) Note, 73-74 bumpers still used the '72 bumper mounting arm, they merely incorporated this "bumper backer tube" into the sheet metal box welded to the outer side of the inner fender panel. Of course, now the hole in the front sheet metal had to accommodate both the bumper arm and the large diameter tube. Gruesome hole. The factory covered it up with a bumper arm cover only found on '73-'74 Ghias. Because of the size of the hole, it ended up being a plastic device somewhat similar to an athletic protective cup, sized for a true Giant.

Now, with all this said, note that '73-'74 European or "Home" market Ghias may not have had the bumper backer tube. That could have been an indignity suffered only by North American market cars. But,they would have continued the railtrack bumper blades and mounting system of a '72 model year car.

Subject: Removing separate headrests from seat back

Question: On reupholstering, how does one remove the separate headrest?

Answer: To remove the separate headrests, lift up the circular, plastic, decorative coverit kinda looks like a small, empty thread spoolsitting between the top of the seat back and the bottom of the head rest itself. Look around. You should see the black metal, tubular headrest support itself. It is a hollow tube pointing upward from the seat frame. A similar hollow tube, points downward from the headrest only it is a slip fit into the inside diameter of the outer tube. To keep these two tubes together the factory drilled a very small hole and introduced a roll pin. Your task is to drive this roll pin out. Never use a tapered tool like a nail punchyou'll merely wedge the hollow roll pin tighter. I use a small finishing nail that I run up against the face of a grinder. With the roll pins out the headrest merely lifts up vertically. As with many repair operations on a Ghia; this is an easy task for an octupus.

Ethics and DOT regulations with the force of law, require professional mechanics and automotive advice givers, like my self, to tell you to put the pin back when reassembling the seat/headrest. Don't be like the hundreds and hundreds of previous Ghia restorers and assume the tight slip fit will be sufficent. What would happen if your Ghia was caught upside down in the jaws of a Jurassic Park like T-Rex? Suddenly,this several stories high lizard decides to wag its head like a demented dog! Well, I'll tell you! Chances are better than 5%, one or more headrests will fall off, leaving you with a whip-lash complaint and a tale that would put glee into the heart of any lawyerEXCEPT T-Rexes don't have deep financial pockets. That would leave me, and my advice column, to shoulder all the law suits. So, if you even remotely suspect you'll find you self upside down in the clutches of a terrible lizard, be sure your headrests are re-pinned in place. Save my financial sanity!

Subject: 65-67 interior lite/mirrors/What's what.

Can anyone out there tell me if a 66 and a 67 interior light is the same. I have a 67 coupe without the light but can get a 66 light and if i could would put that in.

******

Technically, any 1965 thru '67 Karmann Ghia (Coupe and convert) interior lite/mirror assembly is INTERCHANGABLE! However, they are not museum stock interchangable, and so can not be mixed & matched with jillion point authenticity for all three years. (This mirror/lite unit is also found on 65-'67 Beetle converts only, and all of the below info is year for year true of them, also.)

Normally, I would happily tell a '67 Ghia owner to install a '65-'66 Ghia interior lite/mirror unit in his car and "consider it stock"! "Why," I would usually tell them, "only a half a dozen people on the planet would realize it WASN'T stock!" Oh, my! Those half dozen people are listening in! If I create more flames than a zippo lighter for suggesting scheduling a yearly brake fluid flush or sitting up watching T.V and sorting bolts into different cans might represent obsessive behavior, you'd have to start calling me Old Napalm Breath for suggesting a "non-stock" item be considered, well, stock!

Here's the difference! Everything about the entire interior lite unit is the same for those three years EXCEPT in '67 the factory devised a way to install a black, pebble-grained, plastic backing as the housing for the mirror glass; instead of the polished aluminum backing used in '65-'66. They also found a better more bonding type of "silvering", the stuff that makes a mirror mirror. The silver coating on earlier mirror heads came off in fingernail sized sheets. Looking at a decades old mirror was like looking at a piece of shiny aluminum foil, dulled by a coating of white paint and shredded into little strips by macho "Ken", Barbies companion, when he's dressed in his GI Joe fatigues. The end result is plain to see, or more precisely, not "see".

Those living in the "bake and blister" states, know what comes next. Heat and age cooks the thin, black plastic mirror backing and re-converts it into tiny, dust like granules. Quite often, only hideous, open "scars" are left. You can see the BACK SIDE of the mirror glass. So, while the mirror faces on '67 interior lite assemblies continue to function, the backing is gone. The reverse is true of '65-'66. They lose their mirror properties, but never lose their "backsides". (Failed mirroring can be "cured" by breaking out the existing glass, having a new glass piece cut, beveled and re-silvered. Then merely glue it in place WITHOUT having touched the mirror backingespecially the edge.)

So, for the forseeable future, only handfulls of exceptional, "museum" backed, true '67 mirror assemblies will exist. The rest of the folks who want such an assembly will have to use a used/re-furbished '65-'66 unit.

Many Ghia buffs faced with this dilemma know exactly what to do! Use greater force. They note the mirror heads of both the aluminum and black plastic mirror head pivot around a "ball". So, they merely pull until they have separated the mirror head from the pivot ball at the base of the "J" shaped mirror head support rod. Then, they phone asking for a new/used mirror head. Imagine your sainted Grandmother. Her legs are attached to her pelvic bone using a "ball and socket" arrangement very similar to any VW interior mirror. If she is having hip surgery, I can assure you the surgeon does NOT pull her leg from her hip and then start looking around for something to attach to the balled end of the leg bone. Why do VW buffs always have to learn this lesson the hard way?

Summary: 1) '65-'66 Ghias, and Beetle converts only, used a interior lite/mirror assembly with a "heavy" looking, anodized aluminum backed, rectangular mirror. 2) '67 Ghias and Beetle converts only used an interior lite/mirror assembly with a "petite" looking, black plastic backed, oval mirror. 3) The two styles physically bolt to the top of any '65-'67 Ghia Bug vert. windshield frame, interchangably. 4) Heat/light is death to the plastic backed mirror heads. 5) No mirror head can be replaced (neatly) without first breaking out the glass mirror. 6) The only mirror head looking like a '67 mirror head is one from a '68 Karmann Ghia. (All Bug mirror heads have the pivot point offset from the "center" position in the back of the mirror head or are shaped uniquely.) (The '68 Ghia mirror/interior lite assemblies are totally different from the above mirror heads in every other aspect.) 7) If, in choosing mirror/interior lite assemblies, '67 Ghia owner's insist on visual authenticity above all else, most will be disappointed. (Until science developes a Goose that lays plastic mirror heads.) 8) All air cooled VW interior mirror assemblies rely on a "ball and socket" pivot point for the mirror head. Pulling the mirror head off its companion "ball" will NOT promote useful reassembly of the pieces. (Remember, it is the friction of this ball and socket arrangement that eliminates visual jitters and still allows the mirror to pivot so the passenger can apply their lipstick!)

Note: '67 and perhaps even later, T-3 Ghia's may have used this mirror/lite assembly. That would be consistent! All the cars we've said had this assembly were built by Karmann. Strangely, the parts books give this mirror/lite unit an entirely different part number, depending on the vehicle to which it was attached. That indicates some kind of difference. (Probably it was a minor difference in, say, the length of the "J" shaped rod?) In any case, the hobby will go stark raving bananas if not only must authentic items be a visual match to assembly line items, they must also bear, in a non-visible area, the correct mark of Cainthe original part number.

I did receive my Wood kit from Convertible Specialties today. (Snip)I'm just wondering if anyone out there has any Ghia tips or tricks for me. In particlar, I did notice that the rear tack strip is a bit different than the original in that the original had a tongue-in-groove setup in the corners, whereas the repro piece is 3 seperate parts with squared ends. Anything I need to be cautious of when putting it in? Thanks, Tom

******

Tom, the reason Convertible Specialties and all other "wood" guy's have gone to a 2 or three piece, Ghia wooden rear "tack strip" is that sending an original style, finger jointed Ghia rear tack strip by "mail" is as bulky as shipping whale ribs. Sure they are light, but have you ever tried to package and wrap one of those things? Once UPS and the Uncle Sam Postal System sent items based solely on weight. Well, ultra space consuming items, like whale ribs, have caused shippers/mailers to change their tune. Now they use a rather complicated "dimensional weight" system that factors in the size of an item as well as its weight. Bottom line? You wouldn't want to pay shipping costs on a pre-assembled, bulky item like a Ghia rear tack strip. It could be a financial drain like adding the cost of dozen's of "Big Macs" to your order.

The original "tack strip" could be bulky and awkward because the dealer would order the item on his weekly parts list sheet, and it would arrive, "free of shipping costs" to the dealership and retail customer in the regional distributor's delivery truck. (Think 10 regional parts warehouses here in the states.) No wonder VW/Karmann had almost no incentive to consider shipping costs when designing partsthey already had a way to get bulky parts like fenders to their real customers, the dealer. If the dealerships customer wanted the part faster/sooner from the regional parts warehouse, it could be done using the Post Office, but they would have to pay delivery costs. Few wanted to pay "large bucks" for speed.

Incidentally, except that I loved the look of the finger-jointed, one piece tack stripthe ultimate expression of the cabinet-makers arttoday's more "shipper friendly" wooden bows should work virtually as well.

Subject: When tubed bumpers? A smoking gun!

The information below was taken from VW Service Technical bulletin A-14; with a publication date of 4/58. (Note, that means it is talking about an event that occurred nearly 4 months earlier.)

The title of the bulletin is: Reinforced bumpers for Karmann-Ghia Coupe and convertible. (For service installation)

Editor's note: This 8 page printed bulletin, uses the same format as the Service manuals, and is supurbly done. In fact, many of the illustrations appear in the 1960, and subsequent versions of the service manual. It starts off by saying:

"Beginning with Chassis No. 1-764-743, the Karmann-Ghia Coupe and Convertible will be fitted with reinforced bumpers for delivery to certain countries. This additional protection may also be service-fitted on the standard bumpers."

Editor's note: The last Karmann-Ghia produced in calendar year 1957, on December 31st. was Chassis No. 1-777-680. So, mid to late December of 1957 was the date for the shift to "American market bumpers" (The USA was basically the "certain countries" to which the above quote was referring.) This date would be in the first 1/3 of the '58 model year, if VW was celebrating model years at that timesee earlier postings on calendar vs. model year.

What does the above tell us and NOT tell us? 1) The fact that earlier production Ghias used a tubeless bumper, DOES NOT mean that all earlier Ghias used a ONE piece bumper. That bumper died much earlier than late '57. 2) Nor does this bulletin say ALL Euro market cars (from early '58 model up) MUST have non-tubed bumpers. In fact, the bulletin specifically states they could be service installed option/extra. You can bet that by model year '59 (Aug of '58) tubed bumpers would have shown up as an option on all Euro market dealer sales order forms. 3) The fastest way to tell if your Ghia body was set up for tubed bumpers, as Richard T and others have said, is to look for what VW calls the rear bow support reinforcement. A sheet metal, open ended, slanted, rectangular "box" about 150 mm long. IT IS NEVER SEEN, unless one gets out and under the rear of the Ghia. It's purpose is to help support and reinforce the painted body color tubular bow support. (In otherwords, what good would bumper overrider tubes be if the only way they were attached to the body was by the 6mm bolt at the bottom of the tubular bow support? Without some sort of reinforcement, it would be like bolting your bumper up to the sheet metal equivalent of tissue paper.)

Subject: AH-preciation and DEE-preciation

Car buffs, lovers or any one in the throws of a major lust are likely to endure temporary mental lapses. The mind becomes mental mush and spits out answers the person in lust wants to be true; not answers that ARE true.

This maxim is especially so when car buffs, lovers or those lusting mightily consider money. Remember that old saying, "Two can live as cheaply as one." Lovers for centuries have embraced the saying to speed up wedding vows. No banker, economist, IRS agent or bride's mother believes it is literally true.

Similarly, Ghia buffs, like any old car fancier, can convince themselves of three economic fallacies.
A) The Linear Fallacy: The cost of a car is only the original cost plus the cost of repairs/parts. A + B + C + D = a car's true cost.
B) The Never Lose Big Fallacy: A person can only lose in owning a car, the amount he/she has invested. And,
C) The Currency is Wealth Fallacy: Nope! Currency money can be counted and spent all right, but money as wealth is buying power, and that varies wildlyotherwise Confederate dollars would still be in circulation.

Lots of buffs in the grip of a lust induced mental lapse are outraged when I claim the costs of a vehicle could be 2 or 3 times the "actual" costs. They immediately "paper and pencil" results supporting their views using the Linear Fallacy. Perhaps the following true story will illuminate this murky area.

Let's call him John X. John, a middle-aged certifiable Ghia buff living east of the Mississippi, owned the nicest brace of '74 Ghias I've ever seen outside of Loren Pearson's personal West Coast Metric Car Museum. The coupe was way above average, but the convertible was stunning. And, both cars were the color often mistakenly called "English Racing Green".

John was the type who would locate four of a needed replacement item, just so he could be sure he installed the absolutely best used item in place of a slightly worn part on one of his cars. At one point, John asked my advice about carpeting his garage. "John," I told him, "only a human infant can leak more fluids on a rug than can an air-cooled VW! Don't carpet! Instead consider lining the garage floor with Kitty Litter!" John took my advice, minus the Kitty Litter.

Like virtually all of House of Ghia's customers, John insisted he only was going to own one Ghia. "No room, time or talent for more cars," he insisted. At one point, including parts cars, John's stable included four Ghias, and still he had never even changed the oil in his own cars. He always farmed out any mechanical work.

Collecting Ghias was, admittedly, easier in the mid to late '80's, the period when John was active. So, by the early '90's, his cars were worth a tidy amount. Let's say he had a total of $10,000 in his matched duo. (That's a very high estimate, but it will not warp our later conclusions.) However, he was at a very vulnerable state in his Ghia collecting. Both his cars had reached their maximum "perfection" point. No amount of tinkering, polishing or detailing, given his mechanical skills, would improve the cars. What would he now do on a winter evening?

You guessed it! John switched lusts! He fell in love with the then brand new, 2nd generation VW Cabriolet. So his mind,in the raptures of lust, devised this plan. He would sell his Karmann Ghias and take the resulting $25,000 dollars (I told you his Ghias were magnificent.) and buy one new Golf based Cabriolet. (Now, some sharp eyed reader will find evidence that new Cabrios then sold for $25,017, and would I please get my story straight. Yes, we are grossly rounding off figures, but it won't spoil the conclusions any.)

Now come the "if's". Again, someone will point out one cannot buy bread with "if's". Still, any economist will tell you we are talking real, potential dollars here. (Don't you just love that phrase! It makes me sound just like a politician.)

I tried to point out to John he was economically going the wrong way! He was taking TWO cars enjoying rapid appreciation and replacing them with ONE car about to suffer maximum and rapid depreciation. "How's that!", you well might ask. Today, his Golf Cabrio, say seven years old, is worth $5,000? $7,000? $10,000 would be stretching it, but let's give him the benefit of the doubt. He is happy as a clam. In the mid '80, he'd started out with an investment of $10,000; and today, he still had a car worth that amount. Meanwhile, his neighbors had sunk untold thousands into the endless and expensive, "Three years and trade up for a new car" routine. Boy, had he found an automotive "golden egg". Most folks would say John has ended up economically even. (They forget that 1998 dollars do not have the buying power of 1986 dollars.)

But, wait! What if he still owned the Ghias? Sure, they would have an additional half decade plus of wear and tear. And, so they might not be as primo as they once were, BUT if they fetched $25,000 in the early '90's, it's not hard to see their value as collectively worth a conservative $30,000. OK, here is the paradox. On the one hand, John has taken $10,000 and "gotten back" $10,000 dollars. On the other hand, John has thrown away $20,000.

Another way of putting it is that John could have tripled his automotive wealth if he hadn't been seduced by a new Cabrio.

Sceptics would insist all John had, in either case, was POTENTIAL wealth; and he could only create real wealth by selling one or the other combinations of vehicles; in which case, he would be instantly on foot and would have to convert his cash into some form of car transportation. Presto! Much or all of the new wealth would be frozen into the newly purchased vehicle.

All true! But, who do you think is more likely to be invited to a power lunch with Bill Gates? Who do you think is more likely to be assigned a bankruptcy Referee? John of the TWO Ghias, or John of the ONE seven year old Cabrio?

Some of you might recognize part of what we are talking about if we use the economist's labelopportunity cost. Opportunity cost is the potential wealth you passed up by doing what you actually did do with the wealth you had.

THE SUMMARY. Never ignore in your calculations of the costs/wealth involved in old car ownership: A) Opportunity costs. B) Appreciation and depreciation. C) The impact of time on buying power.

Subject: Windshield sizes/glass/seals/early late?

Nothing, absolutely nothing, has caused more Ghia restorer/owner grief than the fact Karmann/VW changed the size of the windshield glass in 1966 and didn't leave a "bread-crumbs trail" for future restorers.

Below is an earlier response to a windshield seal/trim "fit" question. *****

Gilbert wants to seal a Ghia.

Quick question, will the rubber seal and chrome trim for the front windshield of a later Ghia coupe fit a '64 coupe without modifications? My friend want to know this since he's midway through his restoration as well.

*********

Well, Gilbert, here is the quick response. All Ghia windshield openings are the "same" size. (Or as close as the Karmann Craftsmen could make them). BUT, the windshield GLASS is of a different size. So, one CAN use the late trim/late seal and late glass in and earlier car. (Early '56-'66.5; Late from '66,5-'74)

Logic suggests that one could use an early seal, early trim, and early glass in a late car. And, so logic is correct ('70-'74 Ghias would need to remove the anti-popout "combs" or metal spot welded into this era opening)!

BUT, MIXING AND MATCHING FROM EARLY AND LATE IS NOT ALLOWED! For example, a late seal, early glass and late trim, is a definate No! No!

(The fact the late seal/trim combination fits early Ghias is why the early seal is so hard to find NOS. VW obsoleted the early seal in the mid 60's BECAUSE a solution was available. The parts department was told to sell customers who wanted to reseal their pre-66 Ghia the late seal and the late trimand forgot to mention the customer would also need the late glass. This became a hefty amount of money. No wonder customers began verbally attacking the alleged canine ancestry of the parts managers. It also explains why there was such a haste to find a no trim, inexpensive windshield seal in the mid-80's. The popularity of cal-look seals was the direct result. Unfortunately, most of the repro artists making the "Cal-look" seals didn't know what you now know. THERE ARE TWO SIZES OF GLASS. Fit depended on which seal the repro artist had duplicated, (almost always the late sealbecause that was the only one still available new over the parts counter.) With a slavish reproduction, the repro artist would find about 2/3rd of the cars he tested the new seal out on, fit perfectly. About 1/3rd of the cars wouldn't fit at all. Anger! Frustration! Finally, WCM designed and oversized, very forgiving seal that fit both era cars. It is still, the best "Cal-look"seal, and a real bargain.

Many repro manufacturers, to this date, don't understand why they have such a high seal rejection rate, and so many dissatisfied customers.)

Somehow Gilbert, I'll bet your supposedly "quick and simple" question is going to keep me chained to my keyboard for the forseeable future. But, folks if you still have questions about this interchange stuff, feel free to ask.

*****
Back to the present.

Immediately the question becomes, "Did I receive the late windshield or the early windshield?" when buying a new piece of glass from a glass shop. The glass shops themselves are no help because Karmann Ghia windshield glass is listed by one industry wide number in the replacement parts/glass parts market. The answer is, you CAN NOT KNOW FOR CERTAIN!

Local retail American glass shops (Not the VW Dealer) were once connected to a specific AMERICAN "big-boy" glass firm like L-O-F,(Libby-Owens-Ford) or PP&G (Pittsburg Plate and Glass). (Just as today you can buy any brand of tools at Walmart/Home Depot AS LONG AS they, the retailer, have a contract/connection with that brand of tool. In other words, if you are shopping a glass retailer with a connection to L-O-F, you'd play h-ll trying to get a piece of glass made by PP&G. Well, that cozy little relationship changed forever with the introduction of so many Asian car brands. Now, local glass shops are very capable of ordering glass from any one of dozens of windshield manufacturing firms world wide. But, remember, the replacement market industry uses only one Karmann Ghia windshield number, and so, price often drives the aftermarket. Did you know South Africa makes, today, most of the replacement market Ghia windshield glass? And, it's relatively cheap. But, the South African glass is, in my experience, the "Tall" early glass. How can you tell this glass? Well, it often has NO manufacturer's logo, and the only indication it is South African is a stick-on, easily removable, paper tag. Other SA glass DOES come with a Pilkington "decal". Pilkington, I believe, has bought/merged with several of the old line German glass makers. Now, if American aftermarket glass retailers still have a connection with the "big-boy" glass firms, like PP&G, the glass you get will undoubtedly be "Short" late glass. If you went to your VW dealer directly, and they still had in stock, Ghia windshield glass, not only would it's price take your breath away, it would be "Short". Several different pieces of aftermarket glass have shown up in Germany/Europe. This glass can often be gotten, "smoked" or "tinted". I can't be sure if two different manufacturers are involved or not, but I do know that even those throwing sand into the furnances, don't realize there are TWO different sizes of Ghia glass. I suspect, but don't know for certain, that this glass is of the "short" variety. So, which glass will you get????

By now several reader's, including many Ghia specialists, are probably saying, "That Jim fella has been smoking too many of his own press releases! That boy is seriously headed for a stay in a rubber room! There is only one Ghia windshield!"

If someone will provide the guaranteed original early seal ('56-'66) and slice that puppy into cross-sectional chunks about the size of thick pepperoni slices you might toss on a pizza,used will do, I'll provide the similar cuttings from a "late" seal. And, we will all "see". The first thing you will note is the true chrome trim for the early seal "hangs" or attaches to the seal much differently than does the "T" shaped aluminum trim intended for late seals. The early "C" shaped trim attaches to a small slit or groove in the seal. When the trim is not in place, the slit "disappears" or becomes almost invisible. If you wished, leave out the trim, and use the seal as a "Cal-look" seal for "Tall" glass.

The "T" shaped anodized aluminum used on late Ghias is decidely "thicker" in cross section than the hard chrome early trima manufacturing difference dictated by the metal composition of each of the trim styles. Steel, can be much thinner, for a given stiffness than aluminum. But,the major difference between the two styles of trim is the large,"T"shaped tail of the aluminum trim. It even has a barbed, or "devil's" hook on the end. To install this barbed tail in the seal will, obviously, require a major gash or groove in the seal. Given the size of the seal, the groove looks like a wide, deep canyon. If you tried to use the seal without the trim, you would cause major fitting problems. In fact, you probably CAN NOT get the late OE style seal to act like a trimless Cal-look sealat least without major fussing and fudging.

Still can't visualize what's going on? Imagine the seal is the side of a great whale Captain Ahab, of Moby Dick fame, was trying to climb. If Ahab used a meat hook in each hand and clawed his way up the side of the whale, it would resemble how the early hard chrome trim attaches to the side of the seal. However, if Ahab threw a huge, absolutely monstrous harpon, with a sharpened head on the end of the shaft as big as the nose of a Challenger space shuttle, and all the while shouted "Drive the harpoon in, lads, until you reach this sea devil's gizzard!"; then it would resemble how the "T" shaped tail used on the aluminum trim impacted on the rubber seal.

Are you ready to agree? The tail has a whale of an impact (bad pun intended) on the seal. But, wait. If the "tail" of the trim takes up vastly more room, where does that extra space in the seal come from? Yep! Instead of enlarging the windshield opening, Karmann/VW SHORTENED the glass. Oh, not much, but enough to cause Ghia buffs major problems evermore.

Perhaps the House of Ghia catalog misled some buffs. On page 11 of Catalog G, most of the page is devoted to showing the different seal cross-sections. A =3D's Cal-look, B =3D's early "C" shaped trim and seal, and C =3D's late "T" shaped trim and seal. West Coast Metric uses similar cross-sectional diagrams. Both firms were trying to illustrate the difference in how the trim attached. So, both of them exaggerated that aspect and that aspect alone. What isn't apparent in all of these diagrams is that the "T" shaped seal displaces some of the glass.

Loren Pearson, the owner of WCM, was once a Marine. Want to know what is the last part of Marine Training to leave a fella, even 3 decades or so later? It's the vocabulary! And, so Loren is richly expressive when talking about the agony of prototyping a quality Cal-look seal for Ghias. Apparently, sometime in the Carter Administration,the first prototype was created by making an exacting copy of the cross-section of a late Ghia sealwith no trim groove. Well, by now you know one of the problems. Without the insertion of the aluminum trim, the seal didn't "expand" correctly and didn't fit well on "short" glass. WORSE! About 1/3 of his Ghia customers couldn't get it to fit at allit was too tight. By now you should be telling yourself, "Those were the owners of early Ghias and they were trying to use the "tall" glass!" So, Loren scrapped that die, and tried another prototype, based on a precious NEW OLD STOCK early seal. One third of his customers purred! But, 2/3 rds were having problems. The seal was too loose. (Many of his competitor's Cal-look seals ARE STILL so loose on late, "short" glass, the top edge of the glass doesn't even meet the bottom lip of the seal. A disturbing, visible gap!) To Loren's credit, he didn't stop prototyping, He didn't continue selling a non-fitting seal. He DID keep working, struggling, prototypinglearning. Finally the solution came, he designed a Cal-look Ghia seal with longer "lips". Now, not only did it fit either early or late glass (and very late '70-'74 Ghias with anti-windshield pop-out devices in the opening) it installed easier and sealed better than even OEM seals. (And, when the rubber compound was perfected, lasted as long as OEM seals!) Since 1984, House of Ghia has proudly used the WCM item as our Quality Cal-look seal. Meanwhile, every would be Ghia Seal King, with access to extrusion die makers, sought to make their own seal. The number of Ghia Cal-look windshield seals from unique molds was absolute staggering, considering the size of the Ghia market. All of these dies still exist, and sure they squirt out ill-fitting rubber, but they do it soooo cheaply, some Seal Kings can't resist and they bring it back to market. Even Brazil has gotten into the Cal-look market.

Summary. A) There ARE different sized Ghia windshield glassesthe size is dictated by the type of original seal trim. B) All Ghia windshield openings are the same sizegiven that the Ghia IS, after all, a handcrafted car. C) An original Ghia windshield opening is filled by three objects. 1) a seal, 2) a decorative trim, and 3) a piece of windshield glass. If all three are originally intended to be used together as a matched unit, then this matched 3 piece unit will fit any Ghia opening. (Note it might not be museum stock, but it will fit!) D) If one tries to mix and match, say, early glass, with late seal and trim, it won't work. All three of the components must have been meant for the same matched set. E) Quality, well designed Cal-look (no trim) seals, fit all combinations of glass and opening. Install easily. Seal well. Last well. Are amazingly inexpensive. And, are not museum stock. F) Poorly designed Cal-look seals, like ill-fitting dentures, look terrible, install and fit with pain, leak badly, have the life expectancy of a fruit fly, are amazingly cheap. And, are not museum stock.

***********

Below is another posting on this subject. I repeat it only because is gives a hint at windshield sizesin inches.

Steve has an important question on windshield seals and their trim. Some time ago, I rember you telling all of us of the woes encountered by the lowly sap who had to replace his windshield crome on a pre '66 ghia, that the new "t" crome would fit in just fine, as long as you had a slightly smaller window, used on the later '66s+. Or some such falandering. What I'm wondering (Seeing as my '66 came with that oh so tastefull "cal-look" crap) is how one can tell weather or not there '66 window is of the early or late variety. Is there some marking, or measurable diemention ************* Steve, only the "early" tall windshield glass will work with the early repro windshield seal accepting the "hard chrome" C style of trim. To tell if you still have the early tall glass, measure it, from top to bottom at the center of the glass. The "tall" glass will measure about 17 1/4 to 17 3/8ths in that dimension. The late glass, and almost all glass sent by USA glass suppliers like, PP&G (Pittsburg Plate and Glass) is the "short" glass intended for late windshields. Late glass will measure out to 17 inches at the center. (All these dimensions are with the seal removed.) The window opening is the same on all Ghiasbut for the actions of the craftsmen on the Karmann Assembly Line. Here's the rule of thumb, the bottomline. Late glass, late T-shaped trim, and late repro windshield seal with the proper shoulders or corners, installs nicely in any Ghia windshield opening. Early glass, early C-shaped trim and the current early repro windshield seal, installs nicely in any Ghia windshield opening. Where one runs into problems is when mixing and matching. For example, drop an early "anything" into the equation for a nicely fitting "Late" windshield combo and you are headed for trouble. Ditto, when trying to place a "Late" item with any early equation. (For example: A late glass plus and early C-shaped trim plus the current early repro windshield seal, will cause instant gap-o-sis.)

Subject: Identifying Ghia windshield "chrome"trim.

Hi Jim. A friend advised that I ask you this question. I have a '70 Ghia that's almost finished. I have found a set of chrome moldings for the windshield and rear window at a good price. The guy tells me they'll work on models 61-69. I've cross-referenced these years with catalogs and those aren't the years these usally separate. The catalogs usually show 56-66 and 67-74. I'm wondering if the only real difference in the trim would be the type of year model seal that you use. On the coupe, is the windshield and rear glass and openings all the same size? Could I possibly "adapt" these moldings to fit my vehicle by buying the matching seals for the chrome pieces? ********** I'm glad you asked, because you could be in for a rude shock! Look closely at the windshield trim being offered for the Ghia. If it is truly aluminum and vaguely looks "T" shaped in cross-section, the trim is for a '66 1/2 and later seal/windshield glass. You MUST use the "late" seal, and your '70 windshield glass with this trim. (Being coupe or convertible has nothing to do with the seal/trim needed!)

Only if you have, 1) the '56-'66 1/2 trim (which is true, brilliant chrome and definately "C" shaped), 2) the "early" '56-'66 1/2 seal, AND 3) an early windshield glass will the early parts fit into the opening.

You are correct in that the physical opening on all Ghia front/rear windows is the same, but the method Karmann used for holding the trim to the seal changed in 1966. What Karmann and VW neglected to tell everyone is that the new trim mandated a much thicker seal, which forced the factory to use a less "tall" windshield glass. VW/Karmann got away with this little secret for 20 years by telling all their dealers, in effect, "If the customer wants a windshield seal for an early car, they must buy the late seal, the late trim, and the late glass!" Well, that's perfectly fine if your interest is merely keeping the cars running. But, suddenly we have restorers enter the picture. They want life as it was, not as it morphed. VW was a master at morphing its vehicles. So, yes, you can "adapt" the moldings of a different style/year IF you adapt everything from that yeartrim, seal AND windshield glass. (Rear window glass is not as touchy.) If you still have a good "late" windshield glass, my advice is to stay with all late components.

(This response was written before the much longer, similar posting that follows. It was sent to me personally, completed, queued and then I returned to catch up on my chat group eMail. When many postings came up on the same topic, some of them giving inaccurate info, I decided the longer, more involved posting was required. )

Subject: Murphy on 1998 No Ghia content.

1998: As Murphy might revisit it. (Patterson version) What follows are common sayings or Murphy's Laws, slightly skewed and with revisions added based on a knowledge of the events of 1998.

MURPHY ON THE ARTS: Shakespeare once said: "Kill the lawyers!" ***Nothing that's happened in the last 4 centuries would have changed Shakespeare's mind. ***The 1998 doings in Washington D.C. would have led "the Bard" to urge speeding up the process.

MURPHY ON THE CREATION OF CYNICS: Cynics are made, not born! ***1998 created a bumper crop of cynics. ***Thanks to the American Commander-in-Chief, now cynics by the hundreds of millions can be created by the flight of a single Cruise Missile.

THE (Edward) KENNEDY/ (Nelson) ROCKEFELLER MAXIM DEFINING IMPEACHABLE "CRIME= S": Don't engage in behaviors you wouldn't want to be caught dead doing. ***(Editor's suggestion based on the above Maxim)Bill Clinton should give up smoking! Imagine his place in history if, at any future moment, he's found dead in a White House Pantry with an unlit cigar in hand.

THE COMMUNICATIONS PARADOX: If the media consults enough experts, any opinion can be confirmed. ***Communications ParadoxCorrollary A: Given the promise of "air time", anybody will become an instant expert. ***Communications ParadoxThe number of so called experts called upon by the media to orate is always inversely proportional to the true facts known about the issue.

THE CLINTON PRINCIPLE ON NUTURING FRIENDSHIPS: Choose for a paramour only those who stand to lose as much as you do when things go wrong. ***Clinton PrincipleCorrollary A: If you have enough friends you can con and manipulate into lying for you, you can postpone the "things go wrong" stage almost indefinately. ***Clinton PrincipleCorrollary B: If you manipulate friendships to furthe= r your own self interests while ignoring your friends needs, you will add many more "things" to the "things go wrong" stage, when it finally occurs. ***Clinton PrincipleCorrollary C: When things go wrong, if you are the person with the most to lose, you indeed will lose most. ***Clinton PrincipleCorrollary D: You can charm some of the people all of the time, and charm lots of people some of the time. And, then there are Republicans!

MURPHY'S MAXIM ON THINKING: A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking. ****Patterson's Paradox A on Murphy's Maxim on Thinking: Continuous opinion polls showing remarkable stability in the public's thinking are only recording the point at which the public so tired of a topic they stopped thinking about it.

A POLITICIAN'S FORMULA FOR SUCCESS: The secret of success is sincerity. Once you can fake that you've got it made. ***Corrollary A to a politician's success secrets: The more theatrical a politician's denial, the more likely he is, in fact, merely acting. ***Corrollary B to a politician's success secrets: Finger wagging politicians may merely be excercising finger muscles. Then again, who wants politicians with strong fingers. ***Corrollary C to a politician's success secrets: Serial confessions, each being slightly more truthful and honest than its predecessor, are a lot like having serial wives. Each adds an extra cost and diminishes one's resources, until suddenly the accumulated "alimony" leaves you destitute.

A LAWYER'S PROBLEM SOLVER: When in trouble, obfuscate. ***Corrollary A to a lawyer's problem solver: If one's trouble deepens, verbally redefine the problem so that by definition you are no longer in trouble. ***Corrollary B to a lawyer's problem solver: Casting blame about is a lawyer's equivalent of the Magician's "slight of hand" if done with stealth; or a farmer's manure spreaderif done noisily and with malice. The more blame you can throw on any and all people, places and things, the less visable the basic issue becomes. ***Corrollary C to a lawyer's problem solver: If the situation further deteriorates, invent a new problem and demand it be solved first. ***Corrollary D to a lawyer's problem solver: A lawyer who defends himself, not only has a fool for a client; he is likely to have an exquisitely humilated fool for a client. Worse, how can a foolish lawyer use Corrollary B on his lawyer?

THE POLITICIAN'S PARADOX: The sleeze level of any politican's behavior is inversely proportional to how inoffensively they describe the behavior. That is, the more gross the behavior, the more tenderly it is described. Lies becomemisled. Adultery becomespain in my marriage. And, the mind runs amok at the thought of "inappropriate relationship". ***Corrollary A to a Politician's Paradox: The louder moral behaviors are promoted to the public, the greater the probability those doing the promoting view themselves the sole exception to their own urgings. ***Corrollary B to a Politican's Paradox: "Do as I say, not as I do!" isn't part of any oath of office, but it might as well be.

MURPHY'S ACID TEST on the trustworthiness of any politician, as modified by the year 1998. Would you buy a new car or a used cigar from THAT MAN?

THE CYNIC'S LAMENT: The only thing more disgusting and pathetic than a rootless cynic is the reality creating such cynicism.

Subject: Fixing water leaks destroying door panels/pockets

I have just recently purchased a 73 coupe and have questions about some problems I am having (snip) about a problem with water building up in the door panel pocket. When I drove the car home it was raining and after about an hour drive in the rain, the side door panel pocket had a considerable amount of water in it. Strangely enough, it did not build up after I got it out and continued home. The other part is that water will build up in the pocket sometimes if the car sits in the rain outside. This is a problem that happens just sometimes and I'm not sure if there is a seal or something that just doesn't make a good fit all the time or something else.

******
Hans, the water build up in the door pocket almost always comes from water entering the door at the window scraper/window slot. The theory of the German designers is that any water entering thru the window slot would fall straight to the bottom of the door and exit thru 3 or 4 drain slots strategically placed at the doors bottom seam. Check these to see if they are plugged! On most Ghias, from the mid 60's on, the factory placed a simple, flat clear visqueen type of water barrier on the metal of the door shell AND THEN placed the door panel in place. Now, water entering the window slot would strike the plastic sheet and drain off to the bottom of the door. After decades that simple plastic barrier gets misplacedespecially by inattentive mechanics after removing/reinstalling the door panel. Oops! Water entering the door slot now strikes the back of the door panel and runs down a cardboard/pressboard panel backing. Slowly--quickly if a repro pressboard door panel is used--the quality upholestry board provided by Karmann absorbed water and warped. This warping is especially noticable at the bottom of the door panel were it can make the panel look as ruffled as a kitchen curtain. Once warping/ruffling takes place the water striking the back of the panel drains INSIDE the Ghia. I know, I know! But think about it! Almost none of the bottom edge of the door panel fits snuggly against the metal of the door with a ruffled panel bottom. What's to keep the water draining down the back of the panel inside the metal door. Nothing! The ruffling/channeling acts like a low cost water slide for errant water drips. And, so the water slides off the ruffled channels warped into the cardboard of the door panel and to the inside the car; leading to most of those hard to fiqure out damp, swampy floors. Starting about '71 or '72, Karmann went to a poorer quality, press board door panelwood and paper fibers have always been in short supply in Germany. BUT, it seemed they had made up for the problem by encasing the entire door panel, front and back, in "skintight" vinyl. Seemingly bullet proof! Well, at least water proof. But, there was one breech in this seemingly watertight panel covering. Yep! The "map" pockets.

This is how to stop (or reduce) window slot water flow by Ghia year model.

ALL YEARS: Cut out of a large garbage bag a rectangular sheet as large or larger than your door panels. Glue/tape this plastic sheet to the metal door frame. Now, reinstall the door panels.

1956-71 Varnish or paint (waterproof) the back side of any factory or repro door panels, especially if they use pressboard panel backing. Them take a simple "Q" tip swab, dip it in the paint/varnish and root around in circular holes cut into the panel to accomodate the panel mounting clips. This is not a fool proof method, but it can add years to the life of the panel.

1956-71 Replace all of the rubber/felt components in the door slot.

1972-74 Don't even think about fussing with the combination window felt, rubber scraper and aluminum decorative molding. It would be about as silly as having a surgeon remove a dieased heart and then turning around and asking for the replacement organ. The operating room surgical team will have to say, "But, Doctor, one doesn't exist!" (Warning was true as of Christmas of 1998)

ALL YEARS: By now you must have a good idea of what you must do to the backside of the door panel, just above the map pocket. Once the panel backside is painted/protected, a plastic protective flap can be taped over the backside of the map pocket. Beauty is not of essence. Duct tape is the shadetree mechanics best friend. *********

Subject: Ghia headrest removal/69-74

Question: Lots of folks have recently asked how to remove the seperate headrests found on '69 thru '74 Ghias.

Ans: To remove the separate headrests, lift up the circular plastic decorative coverit kinda looks like a small, empty thread spoolsitting between the top of the seat back and the bottom of the head rest itself. Look around. You should see the black metal, tubular headrest support itself. It is a hollow tube pointing upward from the seat frame. A similar hollow tube, points downward from the headrest only it is a slip fit into the inside diameter of the outer tube. To keep these two tubes together the factory drilled a very small hole and introduced a roll pin. Your task is to drive this roll pin out. Never use a tapered tool like a nail punchyou'll merely wedge the hollow roll pin tighter. I use a small finishing nail that I run up against the face of a grinder. With the roll pins out the headrest merely lifts up vertically.

Ethics and DOT regulations with the force of law, require professional mechanics an automotive advice givers, like my self, to tell you to put the pin back when reassembling the seat/headrest. Don't be like the hundreds and hundreds of previous Ghia restorers and assume the tight slip fit will be sufficent. What would happen if your Ghia was caught upside down in the jaws of a Jurassic Park like T-Rex? Suddenly,this several stories high lizard decides to wag its head like a demented dog! Well, I'll tell you! Chances are better than 5%, one or more headrests will fall off, leaving you with a whip-lash complaint and a tale that would put glee into the heart of any lawyerEXCEPT T-Rexes don't have deep financial pockets. That would leave me, and my advice column, to shoulder all the law suits. So, if you even remotely suspect you'll find you self upside down in the clutches of a terrible lizard, be sure your headrests are re-pinned in place. Save my financial sanity!

Subject: 6 things NOT to do to a Ghia coupe

Chat group members! Please forgive me! We have been over and over this same ground, repeatedly. But, every newcomer to the Ghia Universe, somehow think they, and they alone, thought of a new idea on how to instantly, with hacksaw and bondo, improve their Ghia. I am, almost daily, forced to "swat down" these ideas. What follows is one of my lastest attempts. Sorry, if it is repitious.

"Hope", it is said, "springs eternal from the human breast." Well, maybe so! But, I have evidence, when hope, lust, desire, and hormonal thinking combine, they squeeze out common sence.

Every couple of years, for the last two decades, a small firm devises what it thinks is the VW World's equivalent of sliced bread. They come out with a do-it-yourself sunroof installation kit for a Bug. One, or the other, VW newsstand magazine falls all over itself in presenting this "new", righteous, desireable, accessory. The public is whipped to an enthusiastic frenzy. The article ALWAYS fails to mention cost. And, in three easy photographic steps, the magazine implies, "You too can have this neato accessory installed in just about the time it takes to read this article!"

Six months later, the firm has long since stopped answering their phone, but people expect House of Ghia to be able to get them one of these sunroof kits; because faith and hope have suggested to these dreamers, "I'll bet one of these would look spiffy on my Ghia".

Anything is possible with massive applications of money, and, to a limited extent, time. On occasion, true talent can substitute for either time or money. However, in spite of the lust a photo of some "cool" car generates, duplicating that car may not be the economically sane thing to do.
At the present time (Winter '98) the following modifications to a Karmann Ghia coupe are NOT acts of a sane person:

1) Trying to make a coupe into a true, as it came off the Karmann factory's assemblyline, convertible. The cost required is likely to be THREE times as much as the resulting car will be worth. The metal working talent required is certainly World Class, tending toward Galaxie Class. Think Barbie doll. Wasn't there a time when a teen-age jolt of testosterone caused you to think it was simple to convert Barbie into a GI Joe doll? Hey, folks! Make no mistake! It would be simplier, and vastly cheaper, to go out and buy a GI Joe, rather than attempt a surgical conversion. It's the same for those who lust to convert a coupe into a convertible.

2) Trying to make a simple fold-down top along the lines of a boat top. Let's make a Ghia speedster! This conversion IS much easier to accomplish, but, the resulting value of the car, could easily be less than the value of an unmodified coupe. Who wants to buy a car resembling a bathtub? Did you ever try to Garage sale that pathetic, surgically modified Barbie? About as saleable as used cat litter box material! So too, even a magnificently rendered Ghia Speedster.

3) Trying to make a roadster out of a coupe you know, lop off the metal top and just drive the resulting car. Easily accomplished, but who would want one? Resale value of a 300,000 mile Vega, or Chevette, would be greater.

4) Installing a full length "cloth" sunroof, as found on '50's era Beetles. Measure the length of one of these sunroofs. Then, measure the length of a Ghia coupes' metal top. Yep! The leading edge of your sunroof would start at about the wiper shafts, and would curl-up into the middle of the rear window.

5) Installing a 3/4 length "cloth" sunroof, as found on early '60's era Beetles. Same problem! Too long! That's why, the only Beetle-based kit, of the last decade, working on a Ghia, featured a 1/4 length cloth sunroof. It was about as long as the metal-topped Bug sunroof, but was cloth (canvas-topped). I don't know what happened to these folks, or if any inventory still exists.

6) High on the lust scale is installing "suicide doors" on a Ghias "uni-body". The need to be different has spawned some weird, flesh rending, human fads, but must I mention how automotive doors that open on the front edge got such a magnificent name? If you think doors hinged this way are such a good idea, why don't you try and convince Boeing? Certainly there can't be a good reason all those 707's don't use the concept on their doors!

Incidentally, grafting in a true, metal sunroof from a late Beetle roof is possible, but if you've the talent to do so, you don't need advice from me.

Subject: RHD wire harness solutions/Australian

Q: Would you let me know if you have a headlight assembly for a '61 ghia and if you wiring looms fit the right hand drive models. Would you also supply prices for these items. Glen in Melbourne, Australia

A: ALL US cars came with sealbeam headlite units. An entirely different animal than the halogen bulbed "Euro" headlite unit. So, the states are an absolutely lousy place to look for the glass lens Ghia headlite unitsespecially the units with a glass lens fluted to direct light to the right hand side of the road. It's like asking Americans for fermented Kangaroo dung. The stuff is in very short supply here.

No one yet makes a RHD wire harness for any year of Ghia, (and I wouldn't hold my breath). However, you could be able to install a LHD '61 thru '65 Ghia repro harness because both lh and rh drive Ghias routed the wire harness thru a metal tube or pipe in the right hand rocker. Then, because the left hand harness would have longer wires running across the back of the instrument panel, one could cut and attach a standard snap on connector to absolutely every correctly trimmed instrument/switch wire on your newly purchased, expensive, reproed wire harness. Now, the only problem with this neat theory is the tube housing the wire harness is exactly the correct diameter. Thirty-five years of rust and aging have probably tightened up the tube so that not only would it be hard to REMOVE the old harness; it would be difficult to REINSTALL a new harness. I once described the wire harness thru a "tired tube" experience as similar to trying to get the present you into a pair of your 7th grade gym shorts. A cheeky thing to attempt, but ultimately futile.

OR, one could use a '66 Ghia wire harness. Instead of laying it along the LH rocker, lay it along the RH rocker. This solution would require drilling holes and using grommets. Worse! It assumes you have a '66 or later Ghia to look at in order to see how the factory routed the later harness and then you would have to do every thing "backwards".

I haven't made your day! Sorry!

Subject: Mud sill plate seals/availability

I cannot seem to find mud plate seals in HOG or KGPR catalogs. Those those exist, repro or NOS ? Those plates are behind the front wheels, you must remove them to access the antenna hole (for those who didn't know what I was talking about) Any idea where I could find those ? Mine are petrified and have long forgotten they were made of rubber !

Jim Patterson replies: Yes, the seals are still available. Incidentally, they fit ALL Ghias, at the "mud plate", and are also the seals needed if you ever remove the sheet metal nose of a Ghia and want to put a seal back in between the ends of the inner fender panels and the back of the nose. You can see this seal by looking in the extreme corners of the spare tire compartment. It is very cleverly designed to give a waterproof seal between two panels that meet at a 90 degree angle; but that cannot, for replacement purposes, be welded or permanently fastened together. Unless the seal looks like a crispy nightcrawler on a pancake grille, one should have a vocabulary building experience in trying to remove it by hand with the metal plate(s) in place. I am very, very suprised at Ghia buffs personal accounts saying they are able to remove reproduction seals with the metal plates in place. This should not happen!

Death by rust is slow torture indeed! The fastest way of killing a Ghia by rustshort of daily submergence in ocean wateris to remove and throw away these mud sills. In wet weather, the front wheels throw up a constant spray of killer chemicals and assorted gunk. The mind of man couldn't have invented a more inviting hell hole for gunk to land in than this, the exposed 'backside' (when the panel is removed) of the curving section of the rocker panel. Once the heater channel has been breeched by rust, the front tire, wheel speed and centrifical force could push this deadly road spray cocktail thru out the entire heater channel/foundation of your Ghia.

I once found behind a "mud sill", whose lower end had a rust hole about the diameter of a pencil, a dried, hardened mud ball about the size and shape of a hen's egg. Imagine a piece of grit in an oyster. All the gunk splashed by the tires had entered this small hole, and pearl like had surrounded a small piece of debri. After several years, driving and movement had created a crude pearl far bigger than the rust hole that had help create it.

Most of you have found an incredible collection of dust and dirt behind a mud sill, especially if it has been breached by rust at its lower end. The last thing you want is a mud sill seal that leaks. It is hard to end this discussion without seeming self-serving. But, here goes. What anyone should be looking for in a mud sill seal is as exact a repro as is possible. DON'T accept a cheap seal. DON'T accept an adapted seal, or a seal meant for some other purpose. DO get a seal using quality flexible rubber and an original design. You want a seal that is "condum stout". No leaks.

Subject: U-repairum clocks and a steep learning curve
Hi everyone,

My name is Elisa Short, I live in Auckland, New Zealand. (Yup, right at the bottom of the world). I've just joined the mailing list. I've got a gorgeous '66 Coupe which I've had for about 6 mths. We've sanded it back to metal and repainted (close to original Sea Blue colour, with cream roof). Also have switched over to 12V (can't cope with that 6V). The Karmann is my pride and joy.... zero rust, excellent motor, pretty tidy all round really. A real crowd pleaser (but aren't they all!). I plan to post pics on Ghia World, in the profile section so you can check it out there sometime soon hopefully. Anyway, I do have a question for the list... it's that bloody clock. OK, so before I had the KG switched over to 12V the clock never kept time - it was losing 5 -10 mins every 12 hrs or so. I thought the change to 12V might have helped but alas no. At least the clock goes, but in my pursuit of perfection for The Karmann, it is like having a pebble in your shoe having to adjust the clock everytime I get in the car. Any suggestions??? Thanks, Elisa, NZ. '66 Coupe.
***************

Elisa, in New Zealand finds that time is her problem. She received many, many replies to her desperate query condeming her clock that lies.

Elisa, you received some very interesting and well meaning advice. Much of it dead wrong.

First, it is unlikely that any electromechanical automotive clock of the era can give or be tuned to better than 5 minutes plus/minus accuracy a week. Certainly, even Ghia clocks that are tuned NOW to a better accuracy, will not run at that accuracy 1 year from now. Normal wear and tear. That's why they all have an adjustment feature. (Today's quartz clocks have spoiled us. They ARE dead accurate.)

Secondly, when House of Ghia rebuilt clocks we consistently found two problem areas. The grease used, after 3 or 4 decades, had congealed. The clocks moving parts weren't being lubricated. Secondly, (and this is NOT the case with your clock) at some time in the car's life, its electrical system had received a JOLT of electricity. A sudden spike. It was more than the normal fuse could deal with.

But, those clever German engineers had designed into the clock an input wire "fusible link" type of safety device. This internal link "blew" saving the clock mechanism, but rendering the clock non-operative. Only a complete tear-down will allow anyone to fix either problem. The problem with a complete teardown is it requires removing the outer chrome ring holding the "lens" or face glass in place.

As we have said before, mere mortals CAN learn to do this. IT IS POSSIBLE to repair Ghia clocks. But, watch my lips carefully, I'm going to be as legalistic and hair splitting as Bill Clinton: I'll bet you won't be able to repair YOUR clock, even if it is easily repairable. How can I say THAT? Because, the learning curve on many activities is large and steep. You are anxious to get your clock working. So, being human, which is the first clock you experiment on? Do "surgery" on? Sure, your own clock. Which is the first clock you destroy? Ruin? Learn your first lessons on? Yep! And, if you find a second one to train yourself with? It too will become part of the steep learning curve. And the 3rd? My guess is even a dexterous mechanic will destroy the chrome bands on at least 3 Ghia/Beetle clock/speedos before become a master of his craft. If everyone tries to rebuild their clock, the world will be out of spare clocks in a jiffy.

So, what is the message I wish to leave you? Time is relative. This is particulary true during sublime moments like eating an ice cream cone, chasing the down of a thistle and driving a Ghia.

Subject: The story of reproduction Ghia tachs

This is absolutely the world wide web, as you will see in a moment. Philippe in France, is chasing down rumors of the existence of reproduction tachometers for Ghias. He contacts folks in Australia. They respond. Philippe. Sorry for the delay in replying, but an electrical storm took out my modem on Friday night. No we don't have any VDO tachs that I know of in Australia. Jim at House of Ghia sells reproduction tachometers exactly like the clock. So Philippe eMails Oregon in the USA as follows. Hello Jim ! This is Philippe, from France... I am looking for a VDO rpm tachometer, for the early Karmann-Ghia ... and Jerry (the australia Ghia guy) replied me that ! (see above reply) Can you speak to me about your reproductions ?

Philippe. The repro tachometer fiasco reminds me of the cynical saying, "No good deed ever goes unpunished". Nearly ten years ago, I was contacted by a very talented, clever "handyman", who was making a repro Tach for his own car, but needed to silk screen the face plate, devise a few other work-arounds, and make a few unique pieces. If he could do one, he could do dozens. Was I interested in helping him market them? Of course I was.

Well, all you budding capitalists should note that so far this discussion doesn't mention Adam Smith's first rule of survival in a market economy. Yep! The rule involves price.

Before I had realized it, I agreed to market an item before knowing its price. When the tachs were ready to market, OUR price approached $200. Lots of soul seaching at House of Ghia that week! We all agreed. The price House of Ghia paid for the tachometers probably was already at or exceeded the market price. What to do? We believed in the quality of the Tachs, and knew we would be helping the talented handyman out, so we violated a market economies first law.

The Tachs were sold at a loss! We marked the "Tachs" up $10 above our costs and began selling them. Now, a 5% NET return on an item would make many a capitalist content. But, a 5% GROSS return on an item that must be inventoried (remember, that means putting out $200 well in advance in the hope, hope mind you, of making only $10) stored, MARKETED, and supported is "Free enterprise" financial suicide. (A competitor, contacted 'Handyman'. So, Handyman agreed to also supply the competitor with tachs. But, the competitor was much smarter in pricing his units. He included a livable margin. Of course, that meant his Tachs were at least $100 higher priced.)

Our marketing efforts for the Tachs were a huge success. But, because of the costs, no one bought the Tach in advance. They always added this as the last item in their restoration. You guessed it. Almost immediately, our handyman began having difficulty in getting the necessary new 6 and 12 volt tachometer mechanisms IN QUANTITY. After all, the last car with a 6 volt tach, was marketed in the early '60's, 35 years ago.

As I understand the story, our tachs were based on a VDO mechanism. VDO, a large German firm, was purchased, in the merger madness of the '80's-'90's, by an even more gigantic firm. The first task of all such mergers is an "elimination of the excess inventory problem". New Giganticus, didn't feel selling and inventorying parts for a low volume item, last found on cars built when Kennedy was President, was a shrewed move. So, they axed additional production of obsolete tachs, and upped the price on existing units to the market place equivalent of gouge and intolerably excessive. Yet, as supply became tight, Ghia buffs memories became "sharp".

Everyone remembered House of Ghia offered quality tachs, YEARS AND YEARS after it was no longer true. To my knowledge, no Tachs, truly fitting any Ghia's dash and looking like they belong, have been available, in quanities exceeding one, since Monica Lewinsky was a high school student.

Subject: Replacing heater channel/sidemember with repro unit
I've seen the 'whole heater channel' available from various sources and was ready to plop down the dough for them when I heard from another guy on the KG list that these whole units only fit 70's ghias. RT says this is true. Apparently in the 70's the channel height was increased on the inside and so this units would not fit into my '68. This leaves my only choice being to buy all the individual components and then mod'ing them and welding together all the parts to complete the job.

Can you shed any light or wisdom on this?

*****
Jeff, interesting question! Seems we have a bit of the ole "glass half full/half empty" syndome going when we talk about the current repro "sidemember" being a universal fit. In addition, let me suggest, have you ever seen sausage being made or a Ghia rocker transplant? Messy! Messy! Lots of both the pig and the car are swept off the floor with a broom.

Now, I am the first to admit ANY rocker replacement on a Ghia is far beyond the "plug and play" ideal fostered by iMac computers, "Kid's meal" toys or Cracker Jack box giveaways. The process is closer to carrying out a heart transplant. The 200 lb., 50 year old male, receives a donor heart from from a 120 lb., brain dead, teen-age glue sniffer. None of the plumbing fits. No arteries or veins are the same size. Everything must be trimmed to fit. Still,the surgeon will be delighted! Ecstatic! No discouraging words will be heard. Nothing like a shout from the scrub nurse, "But the donor has an inny belly button, and the recipient has an outty!" Everyone in that operating room will be thankful! "At least this was an inner species transplant, my last organ donor was a gorilla!", will be the attitude. And, when the patient recovers, no one expects him to say, "Look at that scar! Now, I'll never be able to sun worship on the beaches of Nice or the Greek isles. I'm going to sue!" I think you should adopt this delighted, ecstatic attitude, also.

I strongly suspect, but have no smoking gun, that any Ghia "sidemember" can be "easily" installed in any Ghia; with the following major deviations, or problems.

1) From '69 up the heater outlet shifted from the inner "dog-leg" top surface (I call it the kick-panel base), to the inner rocker at about the front of the door. In the process, it changed from a shark gill shaped opening into a rectangular opening about the size of the edge of a large paperback book and then was covered by an even larger plastic grille outlet. In any case, no repro sidemember I am aware of has ANY heat outlet. You are expected to cut out one in the shape of your original. And, if the inner curvature of the sidemember changed to accommodate the late heater
outletŠso what! At most it means a few more "scars". A minor deal in the rocker/sausage analogy.

2) The front heater tube, the one behind the kickpanel carpet and rising like a small rain gutter tube into the dash area; changed in 1972 to a paper tube instead of the earlier sheet metal tube. It's diameter may also have changed.

3) The angle and size of the metal tubes running forward and diagonally from the "accordion" shaped connectors to the heat exchangers changed. This may have changed the size and shape of the opening in the side member to accommodate these heater tubes. (The last two items are not familiar to anyone who has not completely dismantled a Ghia.)

Yes, the parts books DO indicate three different side members were in production. '56-'68//'69-'70//'71-up. These differences could easily be explained by the changes listed above. Need any other confirmation? Generations of Ghia buffs have swapped early "bods" on "late" chassis with merely the flick of a ratchet! And, I think this is the key, the outer rocker piece, the piece under the door and spreading forward under the front fender, and rearward behind the rear quarter panel, is considered, by VW as essentially universal. From experience, this piece IS universal. In addition, the convertible stiffener, a piece that must be somewhat precise because it is nested in the center of a sheet metal sandwich, is the same for all years. So, the "early" and the "late" sidemembers can not be so distinctly different they can't, by organ transplant standards, be considered universal.